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  #21  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
(feel free to do the same Exile and I can tell you what's wrong with them )
Make maps for a game that doesn't exist? Why would I do something that silly?
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  #22  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:58 AM
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Silly me. When someone indicates that the only thing stopping them from putting in an application to become a wizard is their history of rule breaking, I assume that they've actually made maps in the past, which they thought were good enough to get them promoted. Otherwise said someone would come across as a person who thinks that map making is incredibly easy to pick up.
  #23  
Old 10-07-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Silly me. When someone indicates that the only thing stopping them from putting in an application to become a wizard is their history of rule breaking, I assume that they've actually made maps in the past, which they thought were good enough to get them promoted. Otherwise said someone would come across as a person who thinks that map making is incredibly easy to pick up.
It's more of a knowing there's no chance that I would ever be promoted so I never bothered to make maps. I do have the map editor downloaded and can tell you any time I've opened it and tried to make maps, it is much harder than people think to make good maps -> I suck at it.
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  #24  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
It's more of a knowing there's no chance that I would ever be promoted so I never bothered to make maps. I do have the map editor downloaded and can tell you any time I've opened it and tried to make maps, it is much harder than people think to make good maps -> I suck at it.
This hasn't stopped others before! You should make some.
  #25  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post
This hasn't stopped others before! You should make some.
I know why you want me too. It would entertain you guys because my maps would be terrible.
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  #26  
Old 10-07-2013, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
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I know why you want me too. It would entertain you guys because my maps would be terrible.
Entertainment value goes a long, long way in our world
  #27  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:31 PM
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Lets have a map making competition. The winner gets promoted into wizardry for a game that doesn't exist.
  #28  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Brionac View Post
Lets have a map making competition. The winner gets promoted into wizardry for a game that doesn't exist.
Only if it's a competition of how bad the maps are!
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  #29  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:52 PM
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Exile - So basically, you're an overweight druggy that can't get into the FBI...

Druggy interjecting himself into an online conversation: Hey, so I would have applied to the FBI if they didn't screen for drug users.

Normal person: Oh, well, it's a shame that you didn't consider that before doing drugs. But you must be really in shape and have mad skills if you thought that you could've gotten in otherwise. So that's pretty cool.

Druggy: What? No, I'm super overweight, have no coordination, and have never fired a gun in my life. But I'm sure I would've learned to overcome those things if only it weren't for the drug test.

Normal person: ...

Brionac - The twist; nobody ends up being talented enough to make maps for a non-existent game.
  #30  
Old 10-07-2013, 09:30 PM
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Map making?

I'm good at making square ponds with the map maker.
  #31  
Old 10-08-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Exile - So basically, you're an overweight druggy that can't get into the FBI...
So, those are your cameras in my house?
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  #32  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:38 AM
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I understand the desire to protect intellectual property, but if in all likelihood that IP will never see the light of day again then what's the point in threatening lawsuits against people who want to keep your creation alive? Imitation is the best form of compliment, after all.

Quote:
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So, those are your cameras in my house?
It was an analogy
  #33  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:28 AM
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It was an analogy
And I was joking. Obviously.
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onykage View Post
wow, see this is the kind of boxed in obtuse thinking that sandbags projects. You assume too much. Stop, it doesn't show anything but a massive inferiority complex.

I know a heck of alot about copyrights and trademarks. Your first incorrect assumption. You can not copyright or trademark an idea.
So you're disputing the existence of intellectual copyright laws? That's pretty intense, considering that an entire branch of copyright protection is dedicated to protecting ideas.

I know this is late, but it's really funny that someone would basically say to make derivative work and then later say to make inspired work. Taking something and modifying twelve pixels is absolutely stealing, and provable in court, just like Arilou said, to make a point to those others who might infringe. Creating an entire game the scale of Wyvern, even in its style, would take years, even to make consistently styled sprites, for a team of professionals. And pointing out the fluid movement thing is a little funny, too, because Wyvern was created like that on purpose. Obviously the technology to make things move fluidly had existed previously to Wyvern's release.

Also, I'd definitely submit for a map-making competition, just for fun. I probably wouldn't submit 40 maps, though. (That was the amount for wizardry, right?) Back when I was like 15 years old, I wanted to be a wizard so badly, and I tried to sit and make some maps but the rectangle of water would just stare me in the face like a blank document in word the night before an essay is due. So I made some bad randomly generated stuff with some slight modifications, linked it together, and submitted it. No one ever replied. xD (This was 8 years ago).

I think now the hardest part of creating an area would be consistently styling the area (some sort of theme), and then making sure it was balanced in the game (so if your area should be for people of level 4, for example, and had a quest, there should not be a dracolich). I think there should be a thread for this contest, or even a pole to see if its worthwhile. I think if at least 5 people said they'd submit maps, we should try it out. Of course, Arilou, Tesh, or someone else would have to agree to judge them, since I'm assuming only a Wizard would know all the qualifications for a good map.
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Last edited by Nodlove : 10-10-2013 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Modified a censored non-curse word.
  #35  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:56 PM
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Infinimo:

I am not threatening anyone with lawsuits. Rather I am warning them that it's not wise to steal someone's exact work because there are potential legal ramifications. I've done the same thing when people wanted to copy someone's exact work into Wyvern; imitation is something that everyone does when creating something new so it is in no way a bad thing. Wyvern, for example, imitated Crossfire's top down look to the point where some people who had no experience with the game thought it was a clone based on screen shots alone. However, if they took the time to play it, they would have seen that there was more to Wyvern than just that one aspect.

Likewise, when you imitate someone in life, you may imitate their style of dress or manner of speech, but you're your own person and not a clone, so you don't become that person totally (even if you're crazy and trying to copy them because you ultimately want to become them by wearing their skin). Thus, as I've said here and elsewhere; by all means, people should take aspects of the game that they like, but they should incorporate it into their own, unique game instead of trying to make an exact clone (which they'll never be able to accomplish from memory anyway and the wizards who retain access to source material wouldn't help them in a million years).

As for the game never coming back, I grow weary of repeating myself as I have spoken about this extensively in other threads and a bit in the post you replied to. However to sum up, I've always explained that even though I think Rhialto will drag things out for awhile, the game will return in some form or another down the road. I understand that it may not seem very likely from the perspective of someone who sees that the game just went down (and remained that way for almost three years) without any direction communication from Rhialto. Add on to that Rhialto's sporadic communications since then and you probably think he doesn't care about the game one way or another as that would probably be the case for most people who take their games down a similar path.

Regardless, things are not that simple when it comes to Rhialto's motivations. As strange and as counterintuitive as this may sound, (it is no less strange to me, I've just been dealing with it longer) the reason you haven't seen much out of him over years is because he cares enough to want to be able to do something grand with the game. Had he not wanted to, he would have just turned the reigns over to someone else or open sourced it by now as he doesn't want the game to die either. Unfortunately, his approach to doing that something has largely involved waiting around for the conditions to be just right and although he's been saying that such is finally the case, I remain skeptical as to whether he can pull it off. However, I can tell you that he's still trying to move things forward behind the scenes even though he is not inclined to talk to you guys about it at present. So, you'll either see the results of that at some point in the future (word of warning for those who haven't already figured this out: I wouldn't put much stock in his estimates) or it won't work out but you'll see him try to get things together a few more times in the future before finally settling for getting the game up some other way.

Do note that back in the day I myself sat around waiting for a game to come back after it was shut down only to see that their plans to sell the game fell through. So I do not make such statements lightly as the last thing I want to do is lead anyone along (hence why I have always made it clear that you guys shouldn't expect the game up any time soon and so people shouldn't hang around day after day waiting for it to suddenly reappear). But, I have inside information that you do not and have been dealing with Rhialto's inactivity for years behind the scenes, including during the last downtime where I said pretty much the same thing in the face of similar skepticism.

Nodlove:

1) If you sent your submission to wyvern@cabochon.com then nobody looked at your maps. Rhialto had gone into his period of inactivity by that point and turned over handling wizard promotions to wizards ahead of that. So you had to contact a senior wizard or higher and ask them if they would look at your maps. Granted, the website hadn't been updated with this information, but I somehow suspect that the same people who couldn't figure this out also threw together random maps that we never would've gone for anyway.

2) As long as I don't have to download anything, I have no problem commenting on your map(s) regardless of whether or not you do so as part of a contest. Meaning, if you want to post screenshots in the Wyvern Development forum, feel free.
  #36  
Old 10-11-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post
This hasn't stopped others before! You should make some.
And still doesn't stop some. Making maps is enjoyable and you only get better the more you do it. You'll notice a few things here and there that will look well together and begin to make a style of your own that you find appealing.

Also if you do plan on doing a map contest of some sort I wouldn't mind putting something together.

Last edited by Jacksparow : 10-11-2013 at 10:32 PM.
  #37  
Old 10-14-2013, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Nodlove:

1) If you sent your submission to wyvern@cabochon.com then nobody looked at your maps. Rhialto had gone into his period of inactivity by that point and turned over handling wizard promotions to wizards ahead of that. So you had to contact a senior wizard or higher and ask them if they would look at your maps. Granted, the website hadn't been updated with this information, but I somehow suspect that the same people who couldn't figure this out also threw together random maps that we never would've gone for anyway.

2) As long as I don't have to download anything, I have no problem commenting on your map(s) regardless of whether or not you do so as part of a contest. Meaning, if you want to post screenshots in the Wyvern Development forum, feel free.
1) Haha, well, I can see how this would cause problems, that is the email I sent them to! I didn't realize that there were large periods of time that R was gone until the first time I happened to be active and the game was down for a month or so. I'd go a while without playing, come back, and usually all was good, but then I couldn't log in. That was how I discovered the other forum (wyverneers.biz, I think), and then when that was down, I found this one! I usually just read things here until I started having opinions on stuff. But I digress.

2) I've got a very busy life, but maybe I'll set aside a little time each day for the next couple weeks to make some maps, just for fun! I feel like it would definitely be a learning experience. And I know you won't spare my feelings, which is good, I hate when people feel like they have to only say nice things instead of giving criticism.
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Last edited by Nodlove : 10-14-2013 at 12:35 AM.
  #38  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:54 AM
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what if I told you that I found a site that claims to have the client for download? I haven't tested it yet, but might get you what you need.
  #39  
Old 10-27-2013, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
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what if I told you that I found a site that claims to have the client for download? I haven't tested it yet, but might get you what you need.
Message me, or post it.

I can test it in a VM if needbe.
  #40  
Old 11-05-2013, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
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what if I told you that I found a site that claims to have the client for download? I haven't tested it yet, but might get you what you need.
This would be a site likely engaging in copyright infringement.
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