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  #221  
Old 05-08-2014, 12:40 PM
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If you did see the video then you would have heard him explain at the end of the first one that people should use GML at that point, but he was skipping past it for the purposes of his demonstration. Like I said in my previous post, it truncates the process, but the full process really isn't all that much more complicated. It's just a little more scripting and a little more time intensive. But someone who knows what they're doing should be able to do it in about a day.
Almost makes me want to try it out, if I had a day to work (work here is contextually a synonym for waste) on it, just to prove this point. xD
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  #222  
Old 05-09-2014, 03:55 AM
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Whether you consider it fake, or not, I suggest you do try it out, because it can actually be pretty fun, I got a friend into it and he was obsessed the first few days. :3
  #223  
Old 05-09-2014, 12:40 PM
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If you're doing it correctly, it's work, not fun. When it's all new to you and you don't truly know what you're doing so you're just messing around with random ideas then it absolutely is a lot of fun. But as you develop your craft and learn that there's a science to your work that you need to stick to then it becomes an actual job that can be extremely tedious. You might find it to also be very rewarding and so you continue for that reason, but make no mistake, you'll never again recapture that experience of it being "fun" if it is something actually end up being able to develop - Level design may seem easy, but it actually takes a tremendous amount of creative talent, so it's not for everyone.
  #224  
Old 05-09-2014, 03:16 PM
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"Level design may seem easy, but it actually takes a tremendous amount of creative talent, so it's not for everyone."

I agree. The creativity that is needed is insane, to closest detail. If you place a single tree down, you need tell yourself does that look good? what kind of problems could be caused by this? what else can I do to this to make it look interest? ect, ect. Level design is easy to start off maybe since its placing resources on a terrain however, to make a good level it takes time, practice, resources, creative thinking and more.

One thing I find low skilled level designers do are common mistakes such as forgetting to polish work or making things too basic.
  #225  
Old 05-09-2014, 04:19 PM
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Exactly. Forgotten Oak was a ton of fun for me to make as I was really just putting stuff down and then running with it. I started off just dropping desolate earth terrain around for no reason whatsoever and then wondered if there was a reason why that would be and came up with the idea of a ruined town. So I started putting buildings down. Once I did that I wondered what should be in those buildings and just went with whatever came to mind. For example, I had this mansion in the eastern point of town that I decided to draw a little bit of grass around and my solution to explaining that was to go through the list of monsters and see that Hill Giants were green so I ended up making him the big bad and quickly scribbled some excuse as to how he and the grass were associated with one another. Next thing I knew I had a whole town in no time at all.

It was so much fun for me that I went right to work on a 200 map area, doing much of the same and it ended up not working so I had to scrap the whole thing. I also ended up scrapping large parts of Forgotten Oak later on as I had a number of issues to deal with, especially concerning that stupid Skull Cave that I added after being promoted.

However, it was good experience that I learned a lot from and through that I was able to develop into someone who carefully planned things out in advance and obsessed over every little detail of object placement in my maps. One could argue I was particularly obsessive about it, but I absolutely feel that the placement every object is extremely important. Not just for aesthetic purposes, (it is really important to me that things don't look manufactured so if objects start to line up and create what looks like a man made pattern in an area where there shouldn't be one that is something I would have to adjust) but for practical reasons as well...

Is this a place that players can get trapped in? Is this tree going to hinder player movement? Do I want their movement to be hindered here? How is this object going to affect player vs monster battles? Will the monster get stuck? Do I want a place for players to hide behind to avoid spells here? Are these barrels going to easily get stuck somewhere, thus making this button unpushable and preventing progression further into an area? The questions that I would have to ask myself with each and every map are numerous. Then I would have to go, test them out, and see if there was anything I could improve upon.

That's how Amita's multi-map setup came about. I was play testing the area on a low level account I made and I found that the one map setup was unwieldy as in order to create a forest village look I used a lot of walkable forest terrain that slowed me down considerably and it was a pain to navigate my way through it, especially after dying. My solution for this was to create multiple maps that had obstacle free paths with blockable trees around them and to create multiple ways through the village. Technically it takes a bit longer to get around the revised design, but it doesn't seem as much of a chore and it ended up looking and feeling more like a real village and less like something that I threw together in a day in response to a forum post that said we needed a new low level area (which is exactly what happened). Of course, people also had problems where they would get lost, so I then needed to use that feedback to devise the map sign system.

Meanwhile, I had other ideas I wanted to work on, but had to keep doing revision work like that to old areas. So it's a whole big thing and although it's very easy to make a bunch junk maps, not everyone is cut out to make high quality ones. Even if you can handle the time commitment, you're either creatively inclined toward such work or you're not. For those who are it's possible to work at it and learn to be someone who is quite good at it, but for those who aren't, they will simply never get there no matter how hard they try.
  #226  
Old 05-11-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
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Whether you consider it fake, or not, I suggest you do try it out, because it can actually be pretty fun, I got a friend into it and he was obsessed the first few days. :3
If it's anything like RPG Maker VX or RPG Toolkit, been there, done that, made games that have nothing to do with RPGs.
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  #227  
Old 05-11-2014, 02:59 PM
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That's the great thing about RPG maker VX(and XP as well), you can write scripts that turn it into something far different than an RPG. But even so, you know while you're doing it, that you aren't creating a game from scratch, and it's far easier than it should be.
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  #228  
Old 09-12-2014, 11:44 PM
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Maybe we should just ask Bullfrogs to persuade Rhialto to open source the game or sell it if he plans on just sitting on it while it's in a state of Limbo.
  #229  
Old 09-13-2014, 06:34 PM
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Maybe we should just ask Bullfrogs to persuade Rhialto to open source the game or sell it if he plans on just sitting on it while it's in a state of Limbo.
I would assume that, from a legal standpoint, he can't open source or sell a game that he doesn't own. Regardless, Rhialto would sit on the game for 30 more years even after being persuaded.
  #230  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:25 PM
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I would assume that, from a legal standpoint, he can't open source or sell a game that he doesn't own. Regardless, Rhialto would sit on the game for 30 more years even after being persuaded.
Correct me if im wrong, but my understanding is that R only owns the original Wyvern that is without the hundreds of maps that the Wizards have contributed over the years. So we would get like NV and the world map and maybe a few other places.
  #231  
Old 09-14-2014, 04:12 PM
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Correct me if im wrong, but my understanding is that R only owns the original Wyvern that is without the hundreds of maps that the Wizards have contributed over the years. So we would get like NV and the world map and maybe a few other places.
You're wrong. You seem to have missed the "Final Update on Wyvern" from November of last year. Wyvern is dead because Rhialto is not the sole owner of Wyvern, and cannot legally reconstruct it without permission from the other owners. Therefore, with that in mind, he is creating a "new" game that is going to take its place, that can access the Wizards' creations in a similar manner, given the Wizards allow the use of their content. However, there is much controversy over this whole thing, and, if you want to know the full story, I'd suggest you read several of the threads from the past 3 or so years. Or, Wikipedia could update you rather nicely. Or that subreddit thingy, which has more direct information, since it's not as old or popular as this forum.
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  #232  
Old 09-14-2014, 10:47 PM
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You're wrong. You seem to have missed the "Final Update on Wyvern" from November of last year. Wyvern is dead because Rhialto is not the sole owner of Wyvern, and cannot legally reconstruct it without permission from the other owners. Therefore, with that in mind, he is creating a "new" game that is going to take its place, that can access the Wizards' creations in a similar manner, given the Wizards allow the use of their content. However, there is much controversy over this whole thing, and, if you want to know the full story, I'd suggest you read several of the threads from the past 3 or so years. Or, Wikipedia could update you rather nicely. Or that subreddit thingy, which has more direct information, since it's not as old or popular as this forum.
I figured he could at lease release the portion of the game and code that he did own to the general public. He couldn't update the T&S agreement to include any artwork or code submitted to the actual game itself is released of any copyright. That's what he should've done in the first place and i'm a bit surprised that it turned out that way. Especially if people used a program that wasn't theirs to make maps with borrowed graphics. I'm not sure about most of the legal aspect of this whole case but to me it sounds like the only thing he shouldn't be able to touch is any art or code that he did not originally write. Even then, Arilou, Teshuvah, Contrare, and Arisu might be reachable to ask permission to use their artwork and code.
  #233  
Old 09-15-2014, 08:56 AM
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Rarkvar, the issue that Nodlove is referring to does not have to do with wizard content. I have sole ownership over my content, Teshuvah has sole ownership of her content, and so on and so forth. Therefore it is up to us as to decide how we wish for our content to be used. So if the game was open sourced (which isn't happening) we would have to consent to allowing it to be released.

That, however, was not the problem as we wizards have no ownership stake whatsoever in the game itself. The problem was that the parts that Rhialto owned (aka everything but wizard content) was not solely owned by him. Meaning, he made himself a co-owner when founding Cabochon Technologies and so he, himself, only had an ownership stake in the game. Therefore, he wanted to resolve that before moving forward as if the game became profitable and other parties came out of the woodwork at a later date, things would become problematic. Likewise, I imagine that said parties could come out of the woodwork if the game was open sourced and go after Rhialto for lost potential earnings, but don't quote me on that as I'm just speculating about that aspect. All I definitively know on the matter is that he said he didn't think he could open source it, if he wanted to, (which he doesn't) after speaking to lawyers.

Anyway, to make a very long saga short, Rhialto considered it a good thing that wizards owned their own content because while it means that Rhialto doesn't own any of it, it also means that those other parties don't either. So if Rhialto were to make a new game based on Wyvern, as he previously said he would, we could have allowed our content to be used in the new game.

Further, had I not seen that Wyvern allowed its contributors to own their content I never would've applied to work on the game (that was the deciding factor for me) and as a result you wouldn't have my stuff as part of Wyvern in the first place. Nor would you have had years of torture humor, (aren't you a lucky sack of meat?) this forum, the content that other wizards produced as a result of my being here, and possibly even the game for as long as you did (no Arilou to stick around after Legolas left means no Teshuvah which means nobody to try to hold things together by alerting Rhialto to server issues, pester him to keep things going, and try to maintain/produce content). So you shouldn't be against our owning our own content.
 


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