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  #41  
Old 04-05-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odolf View Post
Wow. I never realized how much better Wyvern was in the hands of the wizards, rather than the hands of its creator... I apologize for all the times i bad mouthed you guys, really.
Trying to save your life here before Arilou eats you alive

1: The creator *is* a Wizard.

2: All that was ever done was done with the creators say so and/or vision in mind. The only changes that were done in the past few years were fixes for abuses and bugs that never should have happened in the first place. (sadly, part of the problem, and this has been mentioned many times, is that some players got used to playing with the bugs and began to think of them as "normal" because for some years we had no one to fix them. So when they got fixed some players thought it was some massive change.)

So if anyone is thinking that anything that was done in the past few years was without Rhialtos input (he checked all code changes and said yeah/nay to game play changes) they have succumbed to probably the worst case of ignorance gone to seed that I've seen in many years.

All the rules he implemented, not the other Wizards.
Even the most "recent" rule changes (transfer/auction limits) were his idea when he played and got ripped off by another player.



Hope that helps....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
we plan to keep providing a means for him to do so.
He has *always* had a means to do so and didn't.

I am now convinced our biggest mistake was not telling the players what was going on in the background, but rather we kept the game going for you when we shouldn't have.

I wish you the best, but fear you think you "can do it better" than those that actually did it for 10+ years, without any knowledge of what went on or what goes into it.

You somehow think you got him "interested" again.. without knowing that he's done this and posted these exact things repeatedly, in various forms, for years..(was reading almost word for word the email you posted in an email I have dated 2009 yesterday)

Good luck.

ETA (edited to add) : almost forgot.. *dance*
  #42  
Old 04-05-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post

ETA (edited to add) : almost forgot.. *dance*
You've been watching too much kid president!

ETA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGUkWUjPxT8

Last edited by rilian : 04-05-2013 at 02:04 PM.
  #43  
Old 04-05-2013, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rilian View Post
You've been watching too much kid president!

ETA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGUkWUjPxT8
hahaha! thanks for that, I'd never seen/heard of it before...
  #44  
Old 04-05-2013, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
You make it sound like we have no plans to expand the subreddit or make it look nicer. I understand R is the selling point, and I understand his history with keeping users updated is shady, but right now he is giving updates, and we plan to keep providing a means for him to do so.

I also don't agree with a subreddit needing a developer to attract users... I don't know if you have ever used reddit before, but there are countless subreddits devoted to games that have no developers in them at all. Big games such as League of Legends, WoW, Starcraft II all have posts about discussions, funny videos, balance talk, etc. and they are doing just fine without the head CEO of Riot or Blizzard chiming in. There are also subreddits devoted to smaller indie games where players discuss and watch development. (Fez comes to mind as a big one). So I think your argument a community can't exist without developer input is very weak.



Have you even been there yet or are you just making assumptions? The kid advocating spam healing coming back got downvoted and everyone replied in opposition to it.
Bullfrogz - I understand that you want to develop it. But, if you go back and read my full post you'll see that I said that if you truly want to do that, you're dropping the ball right now and need to get serious (I was actually trying to help in my own harshly worded little way - I'll even help you out further by officially linking to your subreddit for you guys if you do well with it so I'm trying to sabotage you). Mind you, I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's going to be hard. I think the biggest issue is that you don't have a sizable enough community to divide between two places. If the game ever grows, sure, you could have people going all over the place to chat. But, even when Wyvern's population had seen better days, these other places would pop up, get attention briefly, and then die. You mentioned that aside from the really popular games there are some indie games on there, but do they have other, more official modes of communication or is that the only place to go to chat? I would assume it is the latter and so for a community like Wyvern's, you're dependent on that draw I was talking about.

As for him getting shot down from other players; how much of that had to do with my reply? People who like the spam healing fix have never been all that inclined to speak out about it, so is it possible that my post made people think they had to say something? I've been down this road with spam healing type fixes before and unless Teshuvah or I say something, the complainers dominate the discussion.

If I'm right about that, here's another thing to spur you guys to possibly say something - I had intended to sit down and have some dialogue about what other wizards and players thought prices should really be. When Rhialto put in the no-trading system, he said that he was going to modify values based on feedback, but never did and as part our balance initiative I wanted to go through everything and see if anything needed be tweaked based how difficult an item was to obtain, how much gold you guys had available to you in the game's current state, and based on how worthwhile an item was to have. We already fixed armorcrafting items which had no value because Janica was lazy and didn't set her own prices and in addition to maybe making some further tweaks with them, I wanted to take a hard look at game items as a whole.
  #45  
Old 04-05-2013, 03:41 PM
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Thanks Tesh, noted. (:
  #46  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:19 PM
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Now, I really appreciate you guys hosting this forum as a place to stay.

But I'm sure everyone would appreciate it if you stopped being negative nancys.

I'm not sure if you noticed when you looked on the subreddit (IF you looked at it) but Steve has said that Wyvern is now 20% of his job at google. This probably means that he's required to work on it, as he's using it to test google apps. He's also not working on it alone.

Even if this is something that won't last very long, don't ruin it for others.

And to comment on the previous discussion about a pure phone version being terrible, Steve said that a computer version would be worked on after the phone version was completed.

I'm quite grateful for the Wyvern "hangout" you've provided for us the last few years. But I think it might be time for you to forget about Wyvern, if all you're doing is arguing with players now. Sorry.
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  #47  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:49 PM
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I'm sorry, but the reason we are replying is because you guys don't know what you're talking about and I don't want to see you get your hopes up unnecessarily. Take what you just said as an example - He's not required to do anything. Google infamously allows its employees to devote some of their time to side projects because sometimes it generations things like gmail, (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/jo...permalink&_r=0) but these are side projects that they have volunteered for and if they don't feel like they're going anywhere, they can stop at any time.

Also, you don't know how long google will entertain this for and if they decide not to let it continue, (as they've famously done with some popular services recently - not that Wyvern would be a service as it's owned by Rhialto, but they can decide that they don't want it hosted on their servers at any time) then what happens? Is Rhialto going to try to host it somewhere else and work on it in his free time? If so, how long is that going take? Another 2+ years? The game has been down twice now and it has been almost ten years since Rhialto has actively worked on it. So you don't even know that he doesn't just like the idea of working on Wyvern. If that's case, he could learn that he doesn't want to push forward (or that it's not as feasible as he thought) as he reintroduces himself to working on the game. Therefore, the game could never come back up (how many independent games have you heard of that got a big promotional push while in development and then never went anywhere?) or it could come up, remain on google's servers, and he could leave someone holding the ball again... someone who may not be skilled enough to keep things running at the level that he could.

So, I'm just telling you guys to be cautious. I don't know what will happen for sure and I don't know if this time will be different or not. So, by all means, be optimistic, but be cautiously optimistic. I have spent years dealing with this stuff behind the scenes and I don't want you guys to get all worked up about the game's return only to have things fall apart for you. I also don't want you to get into playing the game again and then find out that it is being taken offline for a four year hiatus just as things are getting good.

Btw, google Rhialto's actual name and the words; "cat project." He's publicly quit another project that he's volunteered for at google, which created quite a stir as people misinterpreted it as him quitting google. So, again, when you say that he probably has to work on Wyvern, you're totally off base. You may not take me seriously as you think I've just been hosting some hangout for you guys, but I've been working on the game for a decade (minus the years the game was offline) and spent a good chunk of that holding the ball (with Teshuvah and later Contrare) while Rhialto made us feel like we should because he would come back to in some grand way.

As an example, the last time the game came back up was also going to be different. I bought it and I told you guys that that would be the case, but I was dead wrong. Almost right away, he vanished on us; the playerbase was allowed to plummet because he didn't do anything about the crashing/lag issue (the best I could get him to do was to activate the 70 player cap) and although I got him to start work on spam healing, he never finished it, leaving non-giants severely underpowered for over a year (until Contrare fixed it). So, you have to wait and see how things play out as you can't tell from a handful of exchanges, but rather you're going to have to see what happens over the long haul. And maybe instead of just ignoring anything that isn't joyous praise, you might want to take some of what I've said to heart and question Rhialto about why you should think this time will be different and if he can assure you that it will be.
  #48  
Old 04-08-2013, 11:16 AM
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for those of you who are looking at Arilou's post and thinking tl;dr let me sum it up for you in the wise words of former President Bush. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.........well, you ain't gonna fool me again!"
  #49  
Old 04-08-2013, 02:36 PM
Rarkvar Rarkvar is offline
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I figured I'd sign in to provide my two cents since that seems to be what's going on here.

I honestly can't believe how some of you guys are being towards Arilou and Tesh :/ Over the five+ years that I've been playing I've seen Rhialto maybe two or three times, one being on the Anniversary so should that even count? How many times would you all log on and Arilou or Tesh or Valkon or Contrare not be online? Moreso Arilou and Tesh. As players we aren't aware of everything that goes on behind the scenes, but like that new Wizard who made the farm area, I only saw him once and never again after that (other than the time he came into the house where the Demon Dog was).

I would love it if Wyvern came back online because myself and a few friends would play again, but if Arilou and Tesh don't come back with it like I'm pretty sure they've said they weren't in the past unless R comes back as well, and is active, then the game honestly won't be the same and I'll get bored and stop playing after a few weeks. Cool, no active wizards are here, let's tell everyone how to do the quests so we all get bored and stop playing.

Personally I appreciate the fact that Arilou has kept up with this forum because regardless of what you say or think it is where we have all been coming to check and see if there have been any updates, or chat with old friends. I'm going to check out the reddit (what is reddit o.0) but I'm not going to be active on there like I once was on here.

Right now most of you are in the position that we were all in two years ago or when we all got together to sign that letter for R and get the response from him. We were all overwhelmed and excited because we thought the wait was finally over or that we received an accurate time in which the game came back up. Everytime Arilou and Tesh have tried warning us to not get our hopes up because of R's past promises falling through. Referring back to only seeing him two or three times in five years, Arilou and Tesh have known him on a much more personal base than any of us, have talked to him much more than any of us, and know him far better than any of us do yet some of you still feel the need to act like Arilou is in the wrong because he's being realistic with you all.

As much as I hate to say it and as much as I wish I wasn't, I'm with Arilou and Tesh because they're the ones who have actually been here this entire time. Rather than encouraging R to bring the game back up, we need to encourage him and remind him about how much fun it can be so he will be actively involved with it again, otherwise we lose Arilou and Tesh and like I said, I would rather have no game at all than the game without Lou at Tesh.

With all of that being said, I guess it's time to jump on the right bandwagon and *dances*
  #50  
Old 04-08-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarkvar View Post
I would love it if Wyvern came back online because myself and a few friends would play again, but if Arilou and Tesh don't come back with it like I'm pretty sure they've said they weren't in the past unless R comes back as well, and is active, then the game honestly won't be the same and I'll get bored and stop playing after a few weeks. Cool, no active wizards are here, let's tell everyone how to do the quests so we all get bored and stop playing.

Personally I appreciate the fact that Arilou has kept up with this forum because regardless of what you say or think it is where we have all been coming to check and see if there have been any updates, or chat with old friends. I'm going to check out the reddit (what is reddit o.0) but I'm not going to be active on there like I once was on here.

Right now most of you are in the position that we were all in two years ago or when we all got together to sign that letter for R and get the response from him. We were all overwhelmed and excited because we thought the wait was finally over or that we received an accurate time in which the game came back up. Everytime Arilou and Tesh have tried warning us to not get our hopes up because of R's past promises falling through. Referring back to only seeing him two or three times in five years, Arilou and Tesh have known him on a much more personal base than any of us, have talked to him much more than any of us, and know him far better than any of us do yet some of you still feel the need to act like Arilou is in the wrong because he's being realistic with you all.

As much as I hate to say it and as much as I wish I wasn't, I'm with Arilou and Tesh because they're the ones who have actually been here this entire time. Rather than encouraging R to bring the game back up, we need to encourage him and remind him about how much fun it can be so he will be actively involved with it again, otherwise we lose Arilou and Tesh and like I said, I would rather have no game at all than the game without Lou at Tesh.

With all of that being said, I guess it's time to jump on the right bandwagon and *dances*
Check out the subreddit. While I agree it's hard not to to really excited and we shouldn't get our hopes up too quickly, R is actually taking the steps to at least get the website up and running, and stated he has a few friends at Google actually willing to help out on bringing back Wyvern.

Also, Arilou and Tesh have told us countless times they are retired. Regardless if the game comes back or not, they said they weren't going to get involved anymore.
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  #51  
Old 04-08-2013, 03:16 PM
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I just read the reddit posts and yeah it is neat to see R posting actively and communicating with everyone but I still feel like I'm with Tesh and Arilou. If the game does come up for free, on mobile (I have an iphone so I don't get to play) that just seems like it would ruin it for me. Sure I would pay to play it on my PC but if everything has been scaled and slowed down to support it on mobile then what would be the point of playing it on the PC unless he intends on having two variations to support the multiple platform capabilities.

If he's true to his word and everything stays like it is now that's great and I'll be looking forward to it, but I'm not holding my breath. We've been let down before.

Edit: Well yeah then in the case of Tesh and Arilou being retired I'll probably end up playing for a few weeks when the game comes back, to reminisce and hang out. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like it would be the same.

Edit 2, unless you won me a ring of Omni, then I might be more inclined to stick around for a while longer lol.

*dances*

Last edited by Rarkvar : 04-08-2013 at 03:18 PM.
  #52  
Old 04-15-2013, 08:44 AM
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OMGZORZ GYZ!
Member wen we culd git pepz 2 drop cash 4 a wirl-E ackzk, den tek it n runn??

Sorry, all this talk of people wanting old, buggy, extremely flawed systems reminded me of all the charming times people ripped me off, dropping gold to exchange for some weapon, dropping gold to get them out of an entrance/exit, etc.

I just think it's funny that people have seen the game go down like this for this long and still have faith that they will hop back on and have the same gameplay experience they had before. Yes, it will be Wyvern, but Wyvern has always been a beast of change - some beneficial for players, some for balance, but always in the interest of fairness. Where some games will be released bugged, remain bugged, and players will be nerfed to make up for it, Wyvern was always changed in ways that modified the bugged systems and targeted problems in ways I'd never seen in other games and probably won't again. Regardless of all that, if Wyvern comes back (giant if), it will need to change according to the times alongside the changes it needs to fix all the buggy buggy buggies. All this takes time. Lots and lots of time. Even on the "Easter Update" Rhialto hinted at the game not being re-released until winter. And we all know what happens when Rhialto says not until winter... Winter rolls around and we're that kid at the amusement park, "Maybe next year, son. -R"

I don't feel like this is a matter of sides, Wizards, Rhialto, Players, etc., I feel as though looking at all this as some strange war with sides and lines people cross and such isn't appropriate for the situation. I think a lot of people (including myself) get excited when they hear that the game is coming back, especially when R himself says it. However, I think each person is at a level of understanding that differs from each other, since we're all going through this in our own personal ways. From what I gather, Arilou would love to see the game back, as I believe Tesh would, and not even for their own sakes. They care about the game and community, and have for years, and I doubt they'd want to see all the hard work and effort they put into it go to waste. On the flip-side of that coin, they also have experienced things with the game we'd never even imagine, and I think this understanding isn't pessimism, it's realism.

A cloud of excitement can really damage a realistic view. Each time I hear, "It's coming back this year!!!" I get excited. But each year that rolls by with no Wyvern makes me believe less that "IT'S ACTUALLY COMING BACK!!! FOR REAL!" And no matter how many reassurances that it's coming back, I think a lot of people will be (for no reason) divided on whether they believe it. I think when (IF) the game comes back is the only time I'll ever believe it. Even then, whether it remains online is a whole other question. I'd rather not know things are going on behind the scenes in an effort to bring Wyvern back, I'd rather just wait around and hear, "It's back!" than instantly hear "It's coming back!"

So, not to take sides since I don't believe in taking sides on this *cough* less than I believe in reassurances on the game coming back, anyway */cough*, I think we should really try to keep things in perspective, and remember R is one guy, just a person; Wyvern is a whole universe. I'm uneasy in believing that currently thumb-drive'd universe will ever come back, and even if it does, it will not be the same game at all.

TL;DR version, Let's all just get along! No one is the bad guy, let's stop pointing fingers and spewing philosophy on positive or negative outlooks and take situational attitudes into consideration. Or we can argue. Because that gets us somewhere, you know, gets the ball rolling.

Err... I feel like I'm forgetting something important. I guess I should just... *dances*
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Last edited by Nodlove : 04-15-2013 at 08:55 AM.
 


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