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  #1  
Old 03-03-2007, 09:20 PM
layzee layzee is offline
 

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Default formulas of wyvern revised

got bored, went over and simplified the spam healing forumula

[b:d6fc4]table of contents
[/b:d6fc4]
- the ideal base hp formula for spam healers
- before starting
- the formula- examples
- final notes


[i:d6fc4]- the ideal base hp formula for spam healers[/i:d6fc4]

this formula had the purpose of calculating the amount of ideal base hp in a given battle. while the formula still did calculate, this still contained problems. these known problems were spotted and were changed which will be shown later in this topic.

--

[i:d6fc4]- before starting[/i:d6fc4]
note that, like in the other formula, the same variables had been used - where:

t = total hp, h = hp gained from one spell, m = melee or magic resists, s = sp, e = meditation, c = cost for every heal, T = time in seconds, g = current hp



also note that the symbol &p& is not a variable but to show the proof or rationale to the change

---

[i:d6fc4]the formula with proof[/i:d6fc4]

[b:d6fc4]t = ( ((s/c) * h) + ((((T/5) * e))/c)) * h ) [/b:d6fc4]

&p& original formula

t =( ((s/c) * h) + ((((T/5) * e))/c)) * h + g

&p& added the g, if s=0 and e=0, then all the player has before losing is g

[b:d6fc4](T/5) * e) [/b:d6fc4]

&p& to make things simplified, took that part of the formula out - note that the rest of the forumula does not change

[b:d6fc4](T/5) * e) = (T/5)(1/e) = (Te/5) [/b:d6fc4]

&p& a(b/c) = ab/c

[b:d6fc4](Te/5)/c [/b:d6fc4]

&p& same thing with the above process, only change occurs here and will not change the other parts of the formula

[b:d6fc4](Te/5)/c = (Te/1)(1/5)(1/c) = (Te/5c) [/b:d6fc4]

&p& not proper to divide by a fraction, simplified

[b:d6fc4]t =( ((s/c) * h) + (Te/5c) * h + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& put the change back in the formula, notice the change looks more simple

[b:d6fc4]t = h( (s/c) + (Te/5c) + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& combined like terms, ab + ac = a(b +c)

[b:d6fc4]t = h( (s/c) + (Te/5c) + g = h( (5s/5c) + (Te/5c) ) + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& LCD

[b:d6fc4]t = h( (s/5c) + (Te/5c) )(1 + (2m/100) ) + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& added if the player has melee or magic resists, this was changed so if the player had 0 melee or elemental resists, the formula would not be equal to just the hp

[b:d6fc4]t = h( (s/5c) + (Te/5c) )(1 + (2m/100) ) + g = h( (5s/5c) + (10sm/500c) + (Te/5c) + (2Tem/500c) ) + g[/b:d6fc4]

&p& FOIL

[b:d6fc4]t = h( (500s/500c) + (10sm/500c) + (100Te/500c) + (2Tem/500c) ) + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& LCD

[b:d6fc4]t = h( (500s/500c) + (10sm/500c) + (100Te/500c) + (2Tem/500c) ) + g =
t = h( ( (500s) + (10sm) + (100Te) + (2Tem) ) / 500c) ) + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& b/a + c/a + d/a + e/a = (b + c + d + e)/a

[b:d6fc4] t = h( ( (500s) + (10sm) + (100Te) + (2Tem) ) / 500c) ) + g = h( (s(500 + 10m)) + (te(100 + 2m)) / (500c) ) + g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& combined like terms, ab + acd = a( b + cd )

[b:d6fc4]t = h( ( (s(500 + 10m)) + (te(100 + 2m)) / (500c) ) +g [/b:d6fc4]

&p& final outcome

---

[i:d6fc4]example[/i:d6fc4]

to test if this new formula is correct, the past example was taken with a different melee resist
[b:d6fc4]
what is the ideal base spam healing hp for pk mage krayzee with recover of 10 hp per minor heal, 78 hp, 50 melee resist and 0 elmental resist, 585 sp, 10 med, a cost of 2 sp per minor heal, in a 20 second battle?[/b:d6fc4]

input variables

t = total hp
h = 10
m = 0
s = 585
e = 10
c = 2
T = 20
g = 78

[b:d6fc4]t = 10( ( (585(500 + 10(50))) + ((20)(10)(100 + 2(50))) / (500(2) ) + 78 [/b:d6fc4]

t = 10( ( ( 585(1000) ) + ((20)(10)(100 + 2(50))) / (500(2)) ) ) + 78

t = 10( ( (585000 + (20)(10)(200) ) / (1000) ) + 78

t = 10( ( (585000 + 40000) / (1000) ) + 78

t = 10( 625000 / 1000 ) + 78

t = 10(625) + 78

t = 6250 + 78

t = 6328

krayzee with 50 percent melee resists has 6328 hp in a 20 second battle

note that the original answer was 6250 in the unrevised formula, the only addition was the hp

---

[i:d6fc4]final notes[/i:d6fc4]

*this formula is the ideal hp a player should have in a given battle, this could be lowered since no player heals at the exact time

*this formula should not consider potions, since the limit to that is how much a player could carry

*with that huge number on the bottom (500c), one obvious point is to get a high base hp is putting c as low as possible, and T e s and m as high as possible

*since h multiples [b:d6fc4]EVERYTHING[/b:d6fc4], a player should get this high, since even sligh changes could fully change the outcome

*the numerator could be seperated into two seperate parts, (s(500 + 10m)) for the amount a player could head with the given sp, and (te(100 + 2m) for the amount a player could heal every 5 seconds in a meditation

*(s(500 + 10m)) greatly adds to the base hp, even before new hp shows up from the sp regeneration, all players should add this as much as possible

*(te(100 + 2m) while lower than the other part, keeps adding hp every 5 seconds and is better on full healers

*the e, or meditation - unless specially made to fight a player, which is rare - should be dvisible by the the cost of your heal, if not a player might have to wait 5 or more seconds to get sp regeneration to full effect
eg. if your healing costs 5sp, your med should be 5, 10, 15. if your med is 8 and the cost was 5, by the 5th second, could still only heal once

*in reference from the above statement, if your med was 10 instead of 8, you could now heal twice by the 5th second

*players should only full heal if the hp gain from non-fullhealing every 5 seconds is below than 3/4 thier hp. meaning, with exception of the cavie guild, that pixies, raks, humans, and halfing should not try to full heal
eg. krayzee could gain about 100 hp every 5 seconds, so full healing would not work since that would heal only 78 hp. but a stone giant with the right amount of med would gain 700+ hp every 5 seconds with full heal

*if ((T/5) * e) > damage from players, and e > c, then t = infinity, taken from the other forum, if a player cannot catch up from the hp a player gains every 5 seconds the battle will not end
eg. if a stone giant gains 700 hp every 5 seconds, and a player only does 400 every 5 seconds, there will always be extra sp which means the stone giant has infinite hp

*if d > g, then g = 1 , also taken from the other forums, if a player was one hit, then the players base hp in battle was 1

*c cannot be 0

*[b:d6fc4]NOW THE ******* KNOW HOW TO FISH, SO STOP FEEDING THEM SKILLSETS AND SECRETS, IGNIGNOK[/b:d6fc4]

>.<
  #2  
Old 03-03-2007, 09:29 PM
layzee layzee is offline
 

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no >.>
  #3  
Old 03-04-2007, 09:05 AM
stonenator stonenator is offline
 

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you said simple right? your equations are really screwed up, you need to simplify and expand it a bit. I'm good with math, but that was no simpler, maybe more complicate, than the original formula, here is what I say: get a healing spell, alias it to something, and press that button multiple times in battle, that is the spam healing formula in it's most basic form...
  #4  
Old 03-04-2007, 03:25 PM
layzee layzee is offline
 

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[quote:77707]
you said simple right? your equations are really screwed up, you need to simplify and expand it a bit. I'm good with math, but that was no simpler, maybe more complicate, than the original formula,
[/quote:77707]

the only reason why the other math was posted was to show proof on how the equation was tranformed

before
t = ( ((s/c) * h) + ((((T/5) * e))/c)) * h )

- with this equation, a player would need to first t by 5, multiply by e, then divide by c, then multiply by h. even after all of that, the player still would have not finished the full equation and would still need to add the ( ((s/c) * h) part

- also, if a player had melee or magic resists, iunlike the other formula the resists would have been added seperately

after
t = h( ( (s(500 + 10m)) + (te(100 + 2m)) / (500c) ) + g

- this might seem longer, but IF A PLAYER WRITES THE EQUATION out, this formula is actually more simplified

- the h is now combined in the equation, now the player would need to just add the combination of what was in the parenthes, and multiply by h to get the answer

- this formula also might seem longer considering the m was added in the equation. now, if the melee or magic resisits was zero, unlike the other equation, this would not screw this up

[quote:77707]
here is what I say: get a healing spell, alias it to something, and press that button multiple times in battle, that is the spam healing formula in it's most basic form...
[/quote:77707]

[b:77707]thats just like saying nobody needs equations to gravity because all they need is "it justs falls down"[/b:77707]

with this spam healing formula there is proof of

- why pixies, raks, humans, and halfings should not try to full heal

- of how meditation could count on having infinite-like hp

- that training your med should be designed around your spell casting cost

- and plenty others

again, the the only reason why the other parts of math was posted is just to show proof

- because players are certainly tired others [b:77707]sending in topcs about skillsets and weapons without any explanations[/b:77707]

the 300 damage magic whip should ring a bell

>.<
  #5  
Old 03-04-2007, 07:55 PM
stonenator stonenator is offline
 

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300 damage magic whip? doesn't remind me of anything. it should be common sence when not to use full heal. and like I said, get a minor-medium (I wouldn't want more than that) and alias it to a key and press it a bunch of times, and like magic, you have spam healing. not that difficult, and you definatly don't need any long formulas to understand that. why confuse people even more? it is waste of time and waste of mind, especially on a sunday night <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" /><!-- s --> that is just the way I see it though...
  #6  
Old 03-05-2007, 07:03 AM
stonenator stonenator is offline
 

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nah, not afraid of it, sorry. I can understand it just fine now that I have looked at it. I still just find a formula pointless. it is like saying everything in the world can be done through a mathematical formula. I'm sorry, it can't. and the point where I get waste of time, is, generaly, it takes a person longer to do that equation than it takes me to type this post. so which is the bigger waste of time. I say let people discover what is best for them. personaly I don't even like to spam heal so yeah, that is my opinion on the matter.
  #7  
Old 03-05-2007, 10:43 PM
stonenator stonenator is offline
 

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please do not get me wrong, this advice is quite useful, and I'm not complaining about it. but when the server comes back up, who is going to remember that? it seems to me by the time the server is back, this thread will have become old and unfindable without looking back a page or two. and kingfry, I do believe my argument was [quote:03033]
it is like saying everything in the world can be done through a mathematical formula
[/quote:03033] you, yourself, said 85 percent, I said 100 so techniacly, my argument did make sence and you proved that point. thank you very much. but like I said, I am not trying to put any one down, if this is easier for you, go for it. and also as I have said, this is just my opinion, I dare not pass it off as fact. other than the earth revolving around mathematical formulas thing, that's fact <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="Razz" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->.
  #8  
Old 03-15-2007, 02:39 PM
Narhalles Narhalles is offline
 

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yeah I would appreciate a formulae for that too silico... <!-- s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /><!-- s -->
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IC - Frost Giant - Unguilded - level 10
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  #9  
Old 03-17-2007, 08:30 PM
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happyrabitz happyrabitz is offline
 

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i would like to appriciate a formula for why you are a dink.
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2007, 09:21 PM
Ovrlndnsea Ovrlndnsea is offline
 

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[quote=&quot;Kathy3rd&quot;:d24f4]
Try:
minor:[color=#EEEEEE:d24f4] . . .[/color:d24f4]2+life+1d10
medium:11+life+1d15
major:[color=#EEEEEE:d24f4] . .[/color:d24f4]21+life+1d30
[/quote:d24f4]
Post found at <!-- l --><a href="http://www.wyverneers.biz/viewtopic.php?p=26509#26509">viewtopic.php?p= 26509#26509</a><!-- l -->
Does Incantation matter? I thought that was just for the MP reduction.
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2007, 10:21 PM
Ovrlndnsea Ovrlndnsea is offline
 

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You implied if not outright stated that it did a few posts back.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2007, 08:35 AM
Ovrlndnsea Ovrlndnsea is offline
 

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So what was your question, then?
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2007, 01:47 PM
Narhalles Narhalles is offline
 

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How Incantation effected the amount of SP per the different spells for healing and how life effected them a well.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2007, 05:35 PM
Ovrlndnsea Ovrlndnsea is offline
 

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Um, the SP costs are just 0.8^(ArtLevel)*10*LoreLevelOfSpell
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