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Fogey's Corner For old time Wyvern players only. **Currently open to all but at some point in the future this subforum will no longer be accessible to new accounts. If you want to ensure access sign up now.**

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  #1  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:05 PM
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Arilou Arilou is offline
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Hello and welcome to the Fogey's Corner. As per the description, this is meant to be an exclusive subforum for old time forum players but it is open to all right now. The idea is basically to give people a limited window (weeks, months?) to sign up for the forums if they think they will want to use this subforum and then from that point on anyone new will be denied access.

Giving older players who don't yet have an account some time to decide if they want in means some new people will also end up with access. Is everyone okay with that? I don't know what the situation is with the game right now. Are there a lot of new players around? Are they people you don't want to deal with?

Let me know what you guys think. We'll cut off access whenever you guys want. If you want to do it soon, we can do it soon. If you want those in the current group of new players to have access, we can put it off.

Either way, if you have a friend who you don't think has a forum account and you want to be able to talk to them here, encourage them to make an account ASAP. Even if you're not sure if you want to use this subforum, it might be a good idea to have an account just in case activity picks up here among old timers at some point in the future.
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2017, 05:04 PM
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I'd like fogey access. And stay off my lawn,

Arilou are you playing again?
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2017, 05:17 PM
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Again? I've never played the game. And, no, I have not started nor will I ever.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Again? I've never played the game. And, no, I have not started nor will I ever.
Not so not so. You may have thought of yourself as all business and admin, but behind that alien suit and necktie was a little kid enjoying running in circles enjoying leading the rest of us through random quest events and setting up mazes for us to run. Unless I'm confusing you with another alien themed wiz whose avatar looked like a foreign character (in the alphabet way, not the racist way). Or was it a little green dude with wings.... meh too long ago. If you say you were never there, I still felt like you were for some reason.

Last edited by Beckhan : 02-15-2017 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:48 PM
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I worked on the game, yes, but if you think it wasn't work you're mistaken.

LQs were a chore to run. As a result, you only ever got test events from me, the PK LQs, and a milestone LQ (Summer Feast). I was further hoping to get the PK LQs automated so I never had to deal with them, such as they were, ever again. I had zero fun running them and, actually, they'd literally make my head hurt from the length of time I'd have to monitor them and all the things that were going on at once.

Map design, while creatively rewarding for awhile, was time consuming and required a large degree of effort on my part to put together.

If you're confusing work for play and you're asking if I am back working for the game, the answer is also no. I declined to return and am here on the forum only because I once promised players the forums would be always up in some form or another. They then wouldn't let me off the hook by letting me archive it and instead voted for it to remain. I've turned over all moderation duties to players, though, and I'm now only available to advise them and do whatever admin work they ask of me. At some point I'd like to not have to even do that.

Usually, I'm not even here and am only reachable by email. You caught me in a rare moment; I came to post information about the Star Control prequel, returned to see if anyone replied, saw Unknown in the chatbox, replied to him, came back to see his reply and then I saw you.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:33 PM
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I see I see.. the summer event, that was a big deal. Good times. Well nice seeing you man. Try not to work too hard eh? Or maybe try harder to play? Anyway thanks for all you've done.
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  #7  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
I worked on the game, yes, but if you think it wasn't work you're mistaken.

LQs were a chore to run. As a result, you only ever got test events from me, the PK LQs, and a milestone LQ (Summer Feast). I was further hoping to get the PK LQs automated so I never had to deal with them, such as they were, ever again. I had zero fun running them and, actually, they'd literally make my head hurt from the length of time I'd have to monitor them and all the things that were going on at once.

Map design, while creatively rewarding for awhile, was time consuming and required a large degree of effort on my part to put together.

If you're confusing work for play and you're asking if I am back working for the game, the answer is also no. I declined to return and am here on the forum only because I once promised players the forums would be always up in some form or another. They then wouldn't let me off the hook by letting me archive it and instead voted for it to remain. I've turned over all moderation duties to players, though, and I'm now only available to advise them and do whatever admin work they ask of me. At some point I'd like to not have to even do that.

Usually, I'm not even here and am only reachable by email. You caught me in a rare moment; I came to post information about the Star Control prequel, returned to see if anyone replied, saw Unknown in the chatbox, replied to him, came back to see his reply and then I saw you.
Your maps where awesome. I always assumed you where a player at one point due to the character level requirement to become a wizard.
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanterra View Post
Your maps where awesome. I always assumed you where a player at one point due to the character level requirement to become a wizard.
I would assume that the character level requirements were more designed to discourage non-serious players from requesting to be an Admin or content creator. If a player showed up at lv one, and submitted a fantastic enough map, and was willing to actually put in the work required, why really bother having him arbitrarily level a character?
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:41 PM
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What Salkand said was Rhialto's policy. When he put in the age limit he explicitly said (to us) that he really just wanted to discourage some of the people who were sending him bad submissions because it was getting to be too much but if the maps were serviceable, age didn't matter so much. Thus, when Legolas and I started doing the bulk of the submission reviews a number of 12-15 year olds got through in cases where it was known how young they were.

The same seems to have applied to his minimum required level because I had a level 6 account and I got Arilou to level 2 while waiting for Rhialto to randomly see me online so he could promote me after our email exchange. That's it. I came to Wyvern with no intention of playing, just to make maps. My goal during those 6 levels was solely to get a feel for the game that I was trying to make maps for.

I was the one who decided that these things needed to be strictly enforced.

There was a mess of problem wizards in 2003 that made me realize that the age one was important. No 13 year old ever submitted any maps that was anything beyond serviceable, they never improved their craft, and they were all problems in some way or another because of their immaturity. They actually created more work for us than anything and are responsible for you having had less permanent maps in the game because guess who had to babysit them?

People would regularly ask; "But howd u no if i was 12?? i cud just saay im 16," and obviously, it was not very difficult to spot a 13 year old, which is why if you go through the archives you will see me pause a map development conversation and remind them of the rule.

We did have two 15 year old people who I wouldn't lump in with the above, but even so if someone has good content and they're 15, my position was that they should wait. The fear is that they will give up if they're made to do that, but if they didn't wait, that only showed that they wouldn't have had the patience to be wizards and would have been among the many people who just wanted to put one area up and then play around.

I made the mistake of promoting my first player because I had first made him go back several times to make revisions and he told me that if he didn't make wizard this time, he'd give up. I ended up recommending him not because I thought his maps were good but because I thought maybe he could work on his maps as a wizard and improve as I was trying to dof. It was a train-wreck from beginning to end, as were many of the other people promoted that year because the view was that if they had serviceable maps maybe they could improve with testing access.

I felt that the level requirement needed to be strictly enforced, as well, but considering it was instituted when skulls were a major challenge in the game, it was generous to leave it at 15.

The reason for this stance was because I had to do a lot of unnecessary on the job training. For one, I hadn't done much exploring outside of Alaria while trying to get a feel for the game for the few days prior to my promotion (I went to every town on the world map, but just to look in at the start maps quickly) so there were some things that were too heavily based on my limited experiences there. That was minor, though, and was basically a problem with a couple of tower maps.

I started getting into real problems when I tried to make high level areas (Forgotten Oak was originally all mid-level). I would ask players what monsters they liked in maps, they would tell me, and I would put them into the game. This wasn't because I was trying to curry favor, but because I legitimately didn't know how to populate high level areas and it wasn't immediate to me that building a cave filled with dragons and liches and other high XP monsters was a bad idea.

At one point Rhialto told me that a map in the Forgotten Oak Skull Cave was giving out the second most XP, next to a map in the fae Wynston Graveyard. The reason being that I didn't know how much experience monsters with a lot of spells gave out because I didn't fight them myself and their XP is generated by the game, not set manually, so there wasn't a read-out of that info in the Map Editor.

I ended up nuking that area when I was able to see how much of a problem it was.

I also spent 2 months working on an almost 200 map quest as a followup to Forgotten Oak and I opted to scrap that after having Legolas review it. He kindly gave me a lot of helpful feedback and the recommendation that I spend some time trying to do quests in the game. It was then that I leveled an account up to the teens, trying to do as he suggested. That ended up being the highest level account I've ever had.

I actually didn't learn a lot that way because I didn't know Random Dungeons could lead to a hand-made map, so I got stuck on one quest just looking in the map with the RD stairs in it. What I did instead was spend a lot of time observing people play in my areas, (even when I was making that Skull Cave mess I would ask people if they minded if I watched them and they were all very nice to say yes) and I also did a lot of testing of private maps.

While I ultimately got to where I needed to be, I did it the hard way so if I ever had received a set of maps from a player with no account above level 15 I would have told them to do that first, then resend me their maps after they've gone over them again. The thing, though, is that this has never happened. I am an oddity. People who'd come to Wyvern did so to play and they'd either end up not being interested in doing that and leave or they were and got hooked on playing. That then became their focus for a bit. Maps came when they started to slow down or when they realized they could try putting together a rush submission in the hopes of getting Wizard powers, either for general fun or so they could make unbalanced maps for their alts (which was something that's important to high level players).
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