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  #1  
Old 02-07-2016, 08:32 PM
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Notice anything particularly nonsensical in the things that people say on Reddit? If so, post it here. I'll start:

"I love the idea of the system, but I simply don't think it's feasible to do if you expect to have a population of even 100 people."

This is a follow up on the idea that claimable maps couldn't exist in a larger scale game. Here's the problem: we've had 100 consecutive people playing before with far less maps and it worked just fine.

When was this? In the summer of 2003. What was the status of the game then? Teshuvah's thousands of maps weren't around, Binyamin's extensive library wasn't in existence, and I was considered one of the top map makers with my meager few hundred maps. Most wizards created 40 maps and then dropped out. Legolas had the most at about a thousand and I had surpassed Janica's couple of hundred by then.

There were absolutely people who would sit around and complain that there was nowhere to train but these people would sit outside of unbalanced maps like Avalon's dragon lair in Blackrose and complain that those maps weren't unloading. The problem was not that they were right, it was that they refused to train anywhere but a handful of high xp, low danger areas. The server would reboot, they would run to one as fast as they could and they would then try to complete as many treks between these handful of areas as they could. But they would get caught up in a balance feature; maps don't just reset after a fixed time. If you enter them close to their reset time a number of additional minutes would be tacked on. So these highly unbalanced, highly trafficked areas would be checked constantly and thus wouldn't reset as often.

What were the rest of the people doing? Well, at any given time there were a couple of dozen or so low level players running around the starting areas. The New Verden monster maps had their reset times lowered to 15 minutes to help with this and the process of building more low level maps had began. Davos had been up for awhile by then and Amita's initial 37 maps came out in March of 2003 to meet the greater demand for low level content as the game grew in popularity. Since then Teshuvah, Binyamin, and I expanded the low level content many fold. If you went there before the game went down you'd find that there were hundreds of maps for you to explore. The Orc Tower in Amita was designed to allow 5+ to be able to train in there at once. I needed to restore the Kobold tunnels but there was still a lot to do there. Meanwhile, the other ruins in Amita had enough content to support several people as well and then you had random houses in the slums/merchant district, plus the pk forest stuff, and more than a dozen random dungeons (I dropped them like candy - there are four in the fortress alone). Add in dozens more random dungeons from the rest of the starting towns, Teshuvah's Davos content, and the New Verden ruins and finding places to train is not a problem for the percentage of low level players that would be around with 100-200 total players.

Following that you had a larger population of mid-level players. Content for them was undeveloped but they made do.

Then you have, let's say, maybe 20-25 players who are not interested in leveling at a given time, which is perhaps a bit modest. In any case, these are the people who are sitting around chatting, whether in a tavern, auction house, random road somewhere, etc., as well as those pking, questing, and doing mini-games like Sokoban or the MMA.

Finally you had a small number of high level players looking for a fight. At the time, they liked to frequent places like Vesimas, Airick's elven forest area, random dungeons, and my outrageously unbalanced Skull Cave, which I removed when I realized how unbalanced it was. Some were among the campers who refused to explore, but if they did they had no problem finding a constant stream of monsters to fight.

What has happened since then? In total the game came to have about 12,000 unique maps. Not all of them were public and not all of which were monster maps, but a good percentage were. With that there was more than enough room for Rhialto's projected 100-200 people online at once. Teshuvah's areas alone are good for this. When you factor in Binyamin's maps, my maps, Raeden's maps, and so on, it's a non-issue.

Now, future-wise there is a huge issue of not all maps being incorporated into the new game (something that wasn't yet revealed when this person made that comment, btw). But it's certainly possible to rebuild to that level and, remember, it takes nothing to drop a random dungeon in a map. They need work but they can very easily keep even hundreds of players engaged in combat for hours on end.

The only real issue with claimable maps had to do with quests. Questing would indeed be impossible with too many people on at once. The reason we didn't do anything about it was because permission based grouping was reliant on those maps not being per-player and coding a workaround was not a high priority while the population was low.
  #2  
Old 02-11-2016, 10:56 PM
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I don't have a quote for this one because I'm not interested in visiting Reddit at present. However, in the brief time that the evil Teshuvah monster tricked me into checking it I noticed that the usual spam healing misinformation campaign had begun. There is something that (despite my attempts to explain) I have never seen people repeat and since you guys were talking about this in the chatbox today I just wanted to semi-briefly make this point. Feel free to disseminate this or not.

As it pertains to healing, one should keep in mind that the changes were part of a larger plan to make it possible for a dedicated healer class to exist. A healer class was supposed to be a support class so like with blacksmithing and enchanting (once we got around to making those classes possible again) the primary purpose of making a healer would be to provide something that other people needed.

As part of that you might have eventually had a full guild built around it and various additional benefits would have certainly been provided for people who decided to specialize in healing at the expensive of combat capabilities.

What this would mean for non-healers is that you could continue to find ways to heal within the new system but your most viable option for training would be to focus as few skills into self-healing as possible while relying on the help of others to keep you healed in combat without too much interruption. That’s part of the purpose of the no healing in combat thing – Healers wouldn’t be in combat because main classes would be covering them and thus they would be unlikely to be stopped while casting. Training solo would still have been possible and new dungeons would have been designed with solo players in mind. However, we wanted to make it such that training with a group would provide the best method of rewards and so new dungeons would have been designed toward group play as well.

What people may not realize (because they ignored my repeated attempts to explain this) is that with things like the healing changes we were laying the groundwork for bigger changes. And, of course, new methods of dealing with death avoidance would have been added for those who couldn’t heal (e.g. reworking lifesaving/phoenix amulets so they return to no longer doing the same thing).


So, if you didn't like where healing was at (in a general sense as opposed to as it applies to your own, personal, self-healing abilities) because you felt you should be more useful (but not so useful that it was spam healing again) you were right. The problem simply was that it was not an overnight thing so, as with a lot of things during that time, you needed to be a little patient. Getting to where we wanted with that meant designing tons more maps around the direction that we wanted the game to head in, building the framework for a healer class, (which we started with the group heal spell - it just needed a slight tweak to the skill requirement and I think it would have been quite useful) and, ultimately, getting Rhialto to fix the stupid server so there were always enough players around for you all to group with (we did the best we could with suggested playing hours and lag reduction moves).

And, hey, for individuals wanting more ways to heal outside of a group there was the possibility that we could have introduced things like support for healing summons. If Contrare could have gotten that follow code to work properly and coded an AI for a healer monster (which would have been so good as it pertained to monster on monster healing as well) then I would have loved to see you guys running around with your own blood imp. Further down the line when "pets" became possible you could have even been able to hire specific healer based monsters that had degrees of healing ability based on how much you were willing to pay.

Again, it was a process. You didn't get to see the big picture. With many things people thought we designed them based on how things currently were when in reality we designed them based on how we intended things to be as we progressed through my three stage plan.
  #3  
Old 02-12-2016, 12:28 AM
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Mind if I repost this to reddit for more exposure/discussion?
  #4  
Old 02-12-2016, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Feel free to disseminate this or not.
He said....
  #5  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:25 PM
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I would also like to quickly add that part of the process of making grouping both fun and worthwhile necessitated emphasizing the differences between player types. It couldn't just be that everyone was a self healing, spell wielding tank who could pick up a bow from time to time. If that was how it was you would have just had people getting together to smash into things. The basis of a good group system requires different player types who bring their own unique abilities to the table and thus open the door for whole new strategic methods of play.

When you have mages who play the game by running up next to a monster and fireball/blizzard themselves while ignoring all other spells you have mages who have practically become tanks who simply are capable of dealing different types of damage. However, when you have mages who have to hang back and snipe while using a broad range of complicated spells to deal with different types of monsters (and when you have different mage types who do well in different scenarios as opposed to just the classic fire/water mage - new forthcoming spells would have helped turn that around) you create a reason for melee tanks to need a mage.

When you have melee characters who cannot heal well on their own, you create a need for them to group with a healer.

When you have well designed dungeons that necessitate someone who can pick locks, detect/disable traps, (something which was broken and was on the list to fix) and scout things out by sneaking ahead you have the need for people to group with a rouge type character. Speaking of, rogues required some additional work but it is through the grouping system that they would have found their usefulness. The aim wasn't for rogues to be just another melee tank who simply used blades. The aim was for them to be a support class. But without a strong system in place for grouping the only way people could train them was to try take on the challenge of leveling them as they would any other fighter.

Anyway, I could go on but you get the idea. Just also keep in mind that this also about placing more emphasis on the difference between monsters. Many monsters, for example, weren't created with the idea of being strong against melee based damage. You had a few, like the air elemental, but that didn't translate to all levels of play. Wizards would make a boss monster and give them high resistances to things like fire or death. However, while they would give them things like dodge or ac they wouldn't give them resist-stab or resist-cut quite so often. That was the problem with Janica's auto-lqs and it's one of the things we were addressing (mages, already, were winning more often and we were working on making it possible for archers to have a shot).

So ultimately there should have been a much greater diversity of monsters that each and every type of player could not easily defeat on their own. Thus, with the help of new dungeons, that made proper use of them, grouping would have been more important.
  #6  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teshuvah View Post
He said....
Umm..
  #7  
Old 02-12-2016, 01:30 PM
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I never had issue with how healing worked(I played from 2004-2007/2010). The changes made since and everything was still fairly balanced. I never played any spellcasters though, so I don't have a good idea how they ever worked. I never needed healing spells though and got on fine without them. And for what the healing skill was worth was enough to get me through stuff.
  #8  
Old 02-12-2016, 02:08 PM
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What's the matter, you don't know what disseminate means?
  #9  
Old 02-12-2016, 02:27 PM
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Psh, what kind of uncultured, neanderthal brained, scholar-less nitwit do you take me for? Of coarse I now know what it means!
  #10  
Old 02-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfaxe View Post
Psh, what kind of uncultured, neanderthal brained, scholar-less nitwit do you take me for? Of coarse I now know what it means!

*hands chocolate* Perfect

HAHAHA!
  #11  
Old 02-16-2016, 10:37 AM
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Do you ever feel as though you're stuck in a loop, repeating the same things over and over again because people don't listen to you? I was back on reddit this morning because I have to compile things for an email and I noticed more healing fun. Yay. Where to begin?

Quote:
They should have let affected players untrain and retrain for free.
I don't think that's even possible. How are we to make the game recognize that you were a spam healer? It's a nice pie in the sky idea, but wholly unrealistic as far as I'm aware. The only thing we really could have done was let you all untrain/retrain for free but if we start getting into that we would've ended up with a long stretch of free training because how then do we justify not allowing the next group that we tweaked have the same benefit? Plus, it's just something else for people to complain about. You were around and impacted in the moment so you are worried about yourself. But what about people who weren't around and came back later who missed a hypothetical free retraining period? I'm sure that would have went over well and wouldn't at all have led to claims that we were being unfair.

Look, despite this notion that some are trying to express that this all came out of the blue, I did my best to make it clear (on several platforms) that we were beginning a very serious balance fix stage. As part of that we would be making changes that would require people to retrain several times and if that sounded daunting to anyone they should consider taking a break from the game and coming back when we were done. I've repeated that like a mantra so I'm sure there are those among you who remember it. If not, you can go through my posting history here as I said it a bunch on the forum, in addition to elsewhere.

Here is something else I have repeated ad nauseam - Under different conditions things would have been handled in a very different manner. When we began our work peak playing times saw player numbers in the 20s. With little room left to fall and the prospects of the server being fixed in the near future being low, it was the perfect time to just barrel through years of unresolved issues. As a player, sure, it sucks when so many radical changes are made in a short period of time and a string nerfs come in succession. However, that was the fastest way to get through the balance period and my hope was that when we were done we could have convinced Rhialto to finally do something about the server. What I wanted was for the game to be in the best possible shape for when that happened because then we would be in a great position to build it up again.

Of course, if those numbers were in the 60-80 range we would have instead engaged in slow, incremental change where nerfs were very quickly followed up by buffs. However, again, there was no reason to drag things out like that. I get that it sucks on an individual basis, but in the grand scheme of things the impact was low.

Peak playing hours dipped from the 20s to the 10s during the worst of it, but things had calmed down and with the help of our new feature/content intermission (where, btw, we gave you guys cheap untraining for a day) plus the work that Contrare did to reduce lag causing issues so that our garbage server wouldn't be strained quite so much those numbers rose into the 40s by the end. No major nerfs were coming (in fact, we had a number of buffs in the pipeline including the enchant fix) so the road to the stat wipe was rosy.

Speaking of, I couldn't tell you guys that at the time without all hell breaking loose but that was our plan for dealing with the untraining/retraining problem and why I suggested those of you heavily hit by changes take a break. When you came back, you could start fresh like everyone else.

Quote:
Changes to the game need to be telegraphed
Here, btw, is another thing that I have explained at length. Because of the fast paced, barrel through approach that we took, there wasn't even time for that. With the healing change, it was actually made clear that it was coming. However, for other things (e.g. some of the spell changes) things were discussed and then changed within a few day period. How does it help you to get a one or two day notice over and over again that major changes are coming? Are you any less likely to feel that you're being hit by a series of massive changes and have no time to adapt in that scenario?

Also, even if we did that, it would only be in the most general terms. Meaning, you'd be told that non-descript changes to X are coming. I couldn't have told you exactly what changes were coming any sooner than the news post because the specifics were subject to change at a moment's notice. After discussing things, it would be coded, tested, further tweaks would be made, and then it often went live that same day. What this person is asking for would have required us to hold things back purely for the sake of giving you guys a heads up and that just drags things out because then we have to wait to get player reaction to it and without that there's a whole bunch of other things we couldn't even begin on.

Quote:
But promises of goodness down the line
Look, I get that you guys had been burned in the past but that wasn't on us. We worked tirelessly to get through a whole bunch of problems that went unfixed for years and were committed to seeing it through. You were looking at maybe another year (depending on Contrare's schedule) of balance. Then the stat wipe prep would have began, then the stat wipe, then we would have entered the new and exciting feature and promotional stage had we not been interrupted. And, really, if the random dungeon redo wasn't so complicated we would have been about done. Besides that the main things left were the enchant fix, the second spell system tweak, more food stuff, more group stuff, and putting archers on equal footing with other classes. There's a few things I'm missing considering I'm doing this off the top of my head but the point is that there wasn't so much left to do that there wouldn't have been time to work on new features while random dungeons were being fixed.

For example, as I recall, new spells were being worked on and there was talk of subdividing the mage's guild to better allow for specializations within individual elements. You probably would've gotten healer guild support as part of that as opposed to as part of a separate cleric's guild. I say probably because it's been five years and I would have to check my notes to see where we were at, but as I remember that was something that was forthcoming in 2011.

Quote:
With no healing in combat whatsoever
*No spell healing in combat, not no healing whatsoever (you still had other methods of healing available to you that worked in combat).

Quote:
but into the higher levels healing pets just wont suffice in most situations; aka fire shog monopod trap on a low health, fast damaging champion.
And yet another thing that I have explained at length. The situation that this person is describing is what recall, portable holes, amulets of lifesaving/phoenix, teleport, and the like were for. That one views such a situation as only resolvable with healing is a problem of the old system. Adaption to the wide range of death avoidance options that the game offered was necessary for surviving moving forward. And, also again, more such options would have been made available.

Unrelated to that last quote, I'd like to use my closing remark to highlight the degree to which people did not pay attention to my attempts to explain what was going on. Below is a quote from the May 29, 2009 news post where the healing changes were announced. Does my latest attempt to explain that the changes were part of a larger plan to make a healer class of player sound like new information to you? It shouldn't.

"We're also going to do more to support a healing class that can work with non-healers in a group to help supplement some of the access many of you had to healing spells before this change. So in addition to helping us out with your feedback, keep an eye on the news for upcoming additions and changes."

This leads me to believe that even if every single change was announced well in advance with full details provided people would still be acting as if we didn't give you guys advanced notice. Hell, a good of chunk people were constantly surprised by changes that had already been made because they refused to read the news.
  #12  
Old 02-17-2016, 04:34 AM
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I think a lot of what was planned sounds like we were on the cusp of Wyvern as it was meant to be played, and hope that we can still head in that same direction. I'm sad that a large majority of wizard content will be unavailable, but hope that maybe your guidelines will be passed on because I like the direction it was headed. I've heard a lot of people saying that reddit is all about bringing spam healing back, but I think that we take every comment with too much weight because that's how discussions go, one person states a claim, the other refutes or expands, and a compromise is made. It's too bad that more of this discussion can't go on with wizards involved, because you more than any have great input to provide.

Maybe I was young and ignorant, but at the time I do remember hearing talks of a healing nerf, but I don't remember a stated, "On February 14th, we are crushing the love of your life, spam healing" announcement, a few weeks in advance, that would have allowed many time to adequately retrain. There are always a lot of talks in the works when it comes to an alpha game like Wyvern, so the decided upon changes I believe could have been more defined.

I would have loved to see a mage guild subdivide personally, that sounds like it really opens up a lot of potential for different playstyles as well as opening the gates for a more party based Wyvern, that I believe many of us would have loved to see. I still wonder if a tailored type of spell heal could work in combat, but it seems like suggesting anything of the sort results in "haha spam healing ****" comments. Definitely spam healing was broken, but I'm not convinced that potions are the only outcome when it comes to combat healing.

Appreciate the lengthy reply, definitely gives a lot of insight into the behind the scenes thought process that went into a couple of things. Maybe on here we can get a little back and forth that brings to light the best possible outcome of certain situations, because I think when Wyvern was up, players felt that they had little say in what stayed and what left, and now that you all are a little more hands off the game, there can be a bit more discusion on a few of the more sensitive subjects, solidifying reasoning before changes go live.

Last edited by Halfaxe : 02-17-2016 at 04:37 AM.
  #13  
Old 02-17-2016, 10:28 AM
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I think you're right that pots shouldn't be the only solution to combat healing, but as Arilou mentioned, there was a Clerics (or something of the sort) guild in the pipeline. Clerics could of had the bonus of being able to heal themselves and their group in combat, which makes a lot more RP sense then a Stone Giant Caveman being able to. Paladins also, when the game went down, were still very efficient healers, only having to back out of combat for a second to heal back up.

The healing changes weren't finished, but giving a tool available to every guild to train into to be able to heal is the wrong way to go. You end up with min/maxers picking the most efficient class and soloing everything while also shrugging off death (see giant Axemen before the changes). Keeping certain desirable bonuses spread out across guilds makes for a healthy group system.

Take for example Rouges. Arilou said the guild wasn't finished, and they would of been able to pick locks and find traps. While they wouldn't be the most durable of classes, you would still want to take one with you to the end game dungeons so your Naga doesn't get blown up by a summon monster trap.

Last edited by Bullfrogz : 02-17-2016 at 10:30 AM.
  #14  
Old 02-17-2016, 03:21 PM
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With how fun Wyvern was pretty much strictly playing solo, I can't imagine how great it would be with defined roles like that. With both solo and group areas available, it would have been a blast deciding on which class to choose, so I agree that giving everyone the same capacity to heal isn't the right road. Though, I always liked how free the skill point system made everything. Especially for humans and halflings, you weren't stuck into "If you want to be an axeman, be a dwarf or giant" and in basically the same vein, if there is a clear 'best in class', there is little incentive to do otherwise. So guild roles sound great, but hopefully that doesn't mean pigeon-holing yourself into one playstyle.
  #15  
Old 02-18-2016, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfaxe View Post
It's too bad that more of this discussion can't go on with wizards involved, because you more than any have great input to provide.
You're welcome to bring the discussion here if you want me to respond.

Quote:
Maybe I was young and ignorant, but at the time I do remember hearing talks of a healing nerf, but I don't remember a stated, "On February 14th, we are crushing the love of your life, spam healing" announcement, a few weeks in advance, that would have allowed many time to adequately retrain.
You may be confusing the two spam healing nerfs. I don’t know if you used February as an general example because that’s the month we’re in now or if it was a reference to the February 2008 nerf. If the latter, then I brought up the topic on February 7th and Rhialto implemented his half-measures on February 8th so, yeah, there was no announcement of an impending change. However, Teshuvah and I had been saying that it would be fixed as soon as we could get Rhialto to do it for years and announcing or not announcing that change was up to Rhialto, not us. If the former and you meant that there was no clear warning prior to our May 29, 2009 fix to that 2008 update then I assure you there was. You just missed it (or blew it off as "just talk"). Below is an example from shouts. Note that haar asks “well isn’t it being nerfed?” and people responded in the affirmative, which shows that this was not the first time we spoke about it.

2009-05-18 10:06:30: haar: so is it worth it to get the heal spell as a paladin?
2009-05-18 10:06:41: haar: now...
2009-05-18 10:06:48: newnagaraga: probably
2009-05-18 10:06:54: newnagaraga: tis good for most races
2009-05-18 10:07:00: vicarious: >.>
2009-05-18 10:07:01: haar: well isnt it being nerfed?
2009-05-18 10:07:08: vicarious: pretty much
2009-05-18 10:07:12: blown: Yes.
2009-05-18 10:07:15: haar: so...
2009-05-18 10:07:21: haar: what do I do?
2009-05-18 10:07:22: blown: Getting nerfed for all cept mages. I think.
2009-05-18 10:07:26: vicarious: it would end up being worth nothing
2009-05-18 10:07:28: vainglory: how are we supposed to heal if they nerf it :P
2009-05-18 10:07:35: blown: Mana shield. :P
2009-05-18 10:07:36: haar: exactly!
2009-05-18 10:07:43: haar: I dont roll with mana shield
2009-05-18 10:07:51: dioxide: use the skill
2009-05-18 10:07:54: teshuvah: then die *Shrug*
2009-05-18 10:07:55: haar: mana shield is worse.
2009-05-18 10:08:11: ame: i have a pure healing-skill human and i kinda like it.
2009-05-18 10:08:13: blown: Yeah. I agree with Tesh. Use it, or die. Doesn't matter.
2009-05-18 10:08:16: dioxide: With armor being back it wont hurt as much..lol
2009-05-18 10:08:34: vicarious: hey im an ARCHER and i use manashield with natural healing its a great combo although i only have 5 heal and 5 med
2009-05-18 10:08:36: teshuvah: thats why ac was done first.
2009-05-18 10:09:09: allandra: But you're an archer...Not a meleer..
2009-05-18 10:09:10: haar: well why give us life magic points in the guild if we cant heal?
2009-05-18 10:09:21: blown: If AC wasn't done, would Heal have stayed as it is?
2009-05-18 10:09:29: vicarious: full heals being nerfed also dont you have summons?
2009-05-18 10:09:34: blown: For resists, Haar.
2009-05-18 10:10:26: vainglory [help]: as a mage is it better to go fireball blizzard route or go for dragon breath
2009-05-18 10:10:32: haar: I mean I gotta fight shoggoths and stuff later on. mana shield isnt gonna work out so nice. I mean give me 400 hp and I will eb fine, but even with a natural healing I would need like 50 points to heal decently.
2009-05-18 10:11:09: dioxide: Get black dsm at around +5 then you should be good
2009-05-18 10:11:22: allandra: Ya, acid recoil is too dangerous for pure skill healing.. >>
2009-05-18 10:11:24: haar: humans cant play very good no more as paladins I guess. no hp. (I mean I have less than 200).
2009-05-18 10:11:27: ame: haar you'd need like 15 heal
2009-05-18 10:11:52: blown [help]: How is heal going to get nerfed?
2009-05-18 10:12:00: blown [help]: As in, what will happen to it.
2009-05-18 10:12:01: vicarious: umm ever heard oh manashield haar?
2009-05-18 10:12:12: vicarious: that gives me a extra 100 HP basciyl
2009-05-18 10:12:16: haar: but this is stupid. Heal was perfectly fine. Holy Knights should be able to heal themselves
2009-05-18 10:12:16: vicarious: basicly"
2009-05-18 10:12:28: teshuvah: stop complaining about it, it hasnt even happened yet.
2009-05-18 10:12:40: haar: but mana shield will get rid of my sp for resists that I may cast
2009-05-18 10:12:51: vicarious: "wonders how haar would freak out when it happens"
2009-05-18 10:13:05: teshuvah: you cant do melee and magic both well haar and think you can be a tank
2009-05-18 10:13:22: vicarious: i only need 30 second resists to kill me foes
2009-05-18 10:13:31: haar: ok. well since it is irrirtating people (I know seriously I am not the only one) then why not just forget messing ith it. Everything would be fine, and people would be happy
2009-05-18 10:13:38: vicarious: ever heard of meditaion?
2009-05-18 10:13:48: vicarious: i just cant ype today bah
2009-05-18 10:13:50: haar: I have 10 med
2009-05-18 10:13:52: vicarious: type"
2009-05-18 10:13:53: ame: especially the invincible people
2009-05-18 10:14:13: allandra: *looks at the full healing giant* >>
2009-05-18 10:14:18: teshuvah: haar healing nerf has been coming for a year, get used to it
2009-05-18 10:14:30: haar: ok. well get rid of it in the cavemans guild.
2009-05-18 10:14:42: dioxide: You can always quit =p
2009-05-18 10:14:44: teshuvah: haar use the complain command.
2009-05-18 10:15:05: teshuvah: full heal is going away get used to it and you have had months to save to retrain.
2009-05-18 10:15:21: haar: so is there gonna be another healing spell?
2009-05-18 10:15:30: haar: like mayber major healing stays in use?
2009-05-18 10:15:31: newnagaraga: why is heal going away
2009-05-18 10:15:31: teshuvah: something will replace full heal but it wont full heal.
2009-05-18 10:15:39: blown: Major healing?
2009-05-18 10:15:59: teshuvah: lots of changes coming, just wait and see. until then just stop grousing when you dont even know whats gonna happen haar, this has been for days, im all done listening when it hasnt even hapened yet
2009-05-18 10:16:01: haar: ok. major healing is nice. why not just let that last til level 30 haha
2009-05-18 10:16:11: teshuvah: sure with a 10 minute timer *cackle*
2009-05-18 10:16:17: blown: Lol.
2009-05-18 10:16:21: ame: basically, go make some money and bank it for awhile.
2009-05-18 10:16:32: newnagaraga: i miss sb of ressurection
2009-05-18 10:16:36: teshuvah: spam healing is going away, thats the point. You've had months to prepare, use it well .
2009-05-18 10:17:05: haar: I havent even had this guy a month!?
2009-05-18 10:17:09: newnagaraga: teshuvah, can you give us a estimate when heal will be gone
2009-05-18 10:17:14: teshuvah: you've been hear longer than that
2009-05-18 10:17:18: teshuvah: no idea new.
2009-05-18 10:17:22: newnagaraga: ok thanks
2009-05-18 10:17:26: teshuvah: other things are being fixed first.
2009-05-18 10:17:29: haar: I meant haar himself
2009-05-18 10:17:32: newnagaraga: ah
2009-05-18 10:17:33: blown: As in, tesh?
2009-05-18 10:17:46: teshuvah: i dont care , players have been told for months since minor healing levels were put in, to get ready that itw asnt done.
2009-05-18 10:18:19: teshuvah: As in read the news blown.

Quote:
There are always a lot of talks in the works when it comes to an alpha game like Wyvern, so the decided upon changes I believe could have been more defined.
In the future I wanted to start a wizard blog that all wizards could contribute to in order to talk about development, their areas, etc., but in the meantime we did our best to let you know about upcoming spam healing fix. You knew that we were going to be working to fix things (hell, you were the age of updates thread guy and you knew that AC was a likely upcoming fix - www.wyvernrpg.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29556) and although we couldn’t talk about a lot of upcoming changes because they came so quickly, spam healing was both addressed in the lead up to the change (with specific details like how full healing was going away provided) and we spent a whole year saying that further changes would be coming as soon as we could get Rhialto to do them, which included a fix to full heal (see the following as an example: http://www.wyvernrpg.com/forum/showt...7789#post27789).

People often used the whole giant thing to claim we didn’t know what we were doing and so I repeatedly had to explain that I addressed it with Rhialto but he wanted to do it in stages so as not to introduce too many radical changes at once. Only he then he disappeared on us and left us with that mess, which we were just as unhappy with as you guys.

I wanted a timer then but Rhialto came up with that level limit thing instead. I also fully understood that you guys needed spam healing to survive with AC and enchanting broken and so I wanted whatever changes that were made to be followed up with fixes to those (to start with - longer term, we needed things portable holes fixed and the introduction of new death avoidance features). However, it was out of my hands and I had to listen to people who wanted to bash us for trying to get spam healing fixed because Rhialto dropped the ball on it. Which, btw, persists today - Pruflus was called out for bashing out spam healing fixes even though he only played during when that level limit thing that was put in place by Rhialto and, despite that, I saw him complaining about spam healing yet again within the last month.
  #16  
Old 02-18-2016, 02:48 PM
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Halfaxe Halfaxe is offline
 

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*shutters at the idea that chat logs are still around*

But a wizards' blog would have been very interesting, I would have enjoyed reading what you all had to say about upcoming changes as well as having a centralized place to look for all that kind of information.

Last edited by Halfaxe : 02-18-2016 at 02:55 PM.
  #17  
Old 02-18-2016, 11:11 PM
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Arilou Arilou is offline
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Yeah it sucks when they can be used to fact check nonsense claims, doesn't it? I know, that's not what you meant. Nevertheless I could do this all day. The shout logs leading up to the spam healing nerf are filled with discussions about it. How is it that Ame knew to spend that time hording as much money as possible for retraining but reddit guy sunk all his money into making a spam healer 3 days before the update (ame: basically, go make some money and bank it for awhile)?

Here's another one for you that demonstrates the specificity of the information provided during that time:

2009-05-23 11:02:26: obotur: Sounds like Minor Healing will heal higher levels.
2009-05-23 11:02:31: teshuvah: isnt secret, ive told many players. the healing fix coming up removes level limits on healing spells.
2009-05-23 11:02:37: obotur:
2009-05-23 11:02:52: obotur: I never heard about it. T_T
2009-05-23 11:02:58: turlough: so back to spam healing?
2009-05-23 11:03:03: kabroz: timers >.>

Also, I just wanted to give a shout out to someone who actually got it:

corliss: i like it though, spam healing is just boring i think. not much fun. i agree how it should be dodging spells and running around not just standing there clicking an alias

Btw, today I remembered that I wanted artifacts that helped you in the post spam healing nerf world. For example, we had a vampire tooth dagger graphic that I wanted to use (the idea was for it to have a permanent vampire blade effect on it). Also, as you may recall, for the 10 year anniversary I introduced artifact armors. Well I was also working on expanding the selection when the game went down and when time allowed I needed to talk to Contrare about ones that required new code. I would have to pull out my notes if I were going to be specific but I do know that I had a few potential auto heal/save you at low hp concepts. Obviously I didn't want people to be immune to death for a full 6 hours so there would have been conditions. The idea was to reduce the chances of death by a certain amount for whatever duration you had the artifact.

Edit: Actually, I thought of one of my old ideas. You know how there were race specific artifact weapons? Well, same thing, but instead the armor collects the essence of your foe upon death and heals you. So if you're fighting demons and you have a piece of armor that craves demon essence then you would have received an auto-heal boost regularly.

Mind you this is a concept, not a plan. A concept is a write up for a suggested feature that then needs to be discussed and worked out with other wizards. It could turn out that the way in which the concept is suggested is not possible or that it needs to be reworked because it's either too useful or not useful enough.

Anyway, the point is that I was actively thinking about you and how to make things better for you under the new system (as we all were). Remember, in the then current stage, fixes were the priority and features were a secondary concern. However, we did introduce features when we could and we were working hard to get to the stage where features took center stage. I really think that most of you would have enjoyed where we were headed and it's disappointing to me that we never got to give you guys the payout that you deserved (even if instead of being patient you whined and complained to us nonstop).
 


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