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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:45 AM
Jacksparow Jacksparow is offline
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Default Abyss

I remember having a plethora of conversations about the Abyss, and how it could be a new high level area in Wyvern. So I decided to make a post discussing what could be in the Abyss, and what loot could be obtained through it.

This is just coming from my brainstorming, but would probably not happen.

the monsters in the abyss could be "tormented" versions of monsters already in game, because in essence the abyss is basically where everything gets sent before it's final resting place as kinda of an evil purgatory. (at least that's how I view it as) So it could have potential of having just about any monster, but the monsters in the abyss would need to be different then normal ones seen in game. Hence Tormented things

IE
Tormented Drow
Tormented Pirate
Tormented Gorgon
Tormented Medusa
Tormented Monopod
Tormented Maralith

as expected with an "evil purgatory" most of the monsters you would see in the abyss would be evil class monsters, so don't expect to see a Tormented Unicorn anywhere in the abyss.

The final Boss in the abyss I was thinking could be a Leviathan which would have a minute chance of dropping abyssal weapons, and abyssal weapons would have the strength of mithril weapons, as durable as platinum, and the ability to steal health similar to vampire blade (level 5 death vampire blade).

IE
Abyssal Sword
Abyssal Club
Abyssal Axe
Abyssal bow
etc...

There can also be a race within the abyss, but I don't quit know what race would be within the abyss as a "common" monster to be in there. similar to that of Nagas within AV


Leviathan
I was thinking to make the Leviathan harder to kill, and abyssal weapons more rare you can make the boss a 3 part fight.

Part one the Leviathan is on the ground, and can only be damaged by melee weapons. in this stage he has 1000% magic and range resistance, and does mixed recoil damage like that of a riagor

Part two the Leviathan flys into the air, and casts a "protective shield" spell to make it immune to magical attacks (you need to range it in order to be able to damage). In this stage he is able to cast spells from his spell list (Death Ray, Blizzard, Dragonbreath, firespray, fireball, wrath of god... typical high level monster spells)

part three his protective shield gets "destroyed by the arrows", and eh is able to be attacked by magic. He is still able to cast his spells.



With the Leviathan fight needing a well rounded team to be beaten his weapons will be even more rare which would allow for them to be as "overpowered" as they are.

Last edited by Jacksparow : 01-16-2012 at 04:53 AM.
  #2  
Old 01-16-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post

the monsters in the abyss could be "tormented" versions of monsters already in game, because in essence the abyss is basically where everything gets sent before it's final resting place as kinda of an evil purgatory. (at least that's how I view it as) So it could have potential of having just about any monster, but the monsters in the abyss would need to be different then normal ones seen in game. Hence Tormented things

IE
Tormented Drow
Tormented Pirate
Tormented Gorgon
Tormented Medusa
Tormented Monopod
Tormented Maralith

as expected with an "evil purgatory" most of the monsters you would see in the abyss would be evil class monsters, so don't expect to see a Tormented Unicorn anywhere in the abyss.
WHat I have a hard time seeing something like a tormented Marilith or something like that because, aren't they already demons, and thus chaotic/evil as I would assume the monster "theme" is. I think all the "tormented" should should be the more neutral monsters, and demons just exist as is.
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  #3  
Old 01-16-2012, 05:58 PM
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The reward is pretty weak. Mithril weapons are incredibly underpowered compared to diamond/elec/gem, and vampire blade doesn't do anything against demons and undead - which constitute the vast majority of your high level digest anyway. Try a different reward, something like a chilling bracelet?
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
The reward is pretty weak. Mithril weapons are incredibly underpowered compared to diamond/elec/gem, and vampire blade doesn't do anything against demons and undead - which constitute the vast majority of your high level digest anyway. Try a different reward, something like a chilling bracelet?
or make it a life steal that works on demons and undead as well.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2012, 06:35 PM
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Well the reward seems fair considering that it fits the theme of the area. Maybe it wasn't mean to be used in that area? There are still many other places it could be used. It should probably be beefed up a bit as far as strength goes.

As far as the boss is concerned, I would never go to that area :/
I mean really, why is it that everyone thinks "Oh yeah, high level boss monster, let's make it more resistant to magic"? Two out of three phases mages would be useless. I'm not going to be the mage who has to resist other people so they can win a weapon for themselves once I kill it... That just isn't going to go down like that. Vesrayech is not risking D-ray for split xp and no reward.

Nifty idea as far as the area goes, the boss idea is horribly unbalanced.
  #6  
Old 01-17-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarkvar View Post
I mean really, why is it that everyone thinks "Oh yeah, high level boss monster, let's make it more resistant to magic"? Two out of three phases mages would be useless. I'm not going to be the mage who has to resist other people so they can win a weapon for themselves once I kill it... That just isn't going to go down like that. Vesrayech is not risking D-ray for split xp and no reward.
Maybe by risking death ray, your team would be willing to return the favor and risk it in a similar battle, somewhere else in the game where the boss monster drops something that would be highly valuable to you.
  #7  
Old 01-17-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Maybe by risking death ray, your team would be willing to return the favor and risk it in a similar battle, somewhere else in the game where the boss monster drops something that would be highly valuable to you.
That's not my point. My point is most boss type monsters do not normally have any resistance to cut, stab, or smash damage. The boss idea is not bad, I just find it highly unfair that two out of three forms are immune to magic.

Like I said, I would not consider fighting a boss and resisting everyone else if I could die instantly with no reward. Take death ray out of the equation. I still would not do it. In the time it would take to kill the boss monster I could have gotten plenty of other experience elsewhere. It would be very boring and unrewarding is my point. If I was so worried about death penalties, I would just hang back in the room before the boss room. That isn't as big of an issue.

What if the boss had one phase/form instead of three. Except for the boss has the ability to summon diamond golem type monsters (mage immunity) and a type of elemental golem that was immune to every melee type of damage? Then set the bosses resistance to 60% against melee and 30% to each element. Any melee character that is any good will have find weakness, which explains why the melee resistance is higher. Keep the same recoil as well, and maybe substitute death ray for earthquake. Beef up the bosses hp and ac so the fight will last longer. Now the boss is mainly a group boss (still solo-able, like Binyamins Failure). Both mage and melee classes can now fight the boss equally rather than the mage's cheering the meleer's on from the sidelines like they usually are.

As far as the rewards are concerned, throw in some mage rewards as well to encourage them to participate. The only mages I could see helping out with something like this is maybe Zevran, who otherwise would be sitting in MAH.
  #8  
Old 01-17-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
That's not my point. My point is most boss type monsters do not normally have any resistance to cut, stab, or smash damage. The boss idea is not bad, I just find it highly unfair that two out of three forms are immune to magic
I think the idea is that the monster be immune to all forms of melee damage for two forms as well. So, if that's the case, I don't see how it's unfair - Blackbeard only mentioned immunity to magic with the second form, but I would assume the point of it flying into the air is that it is no longer able to be attacked by melee players as well.

Anyway, we had been getting better at adding more melee resist monsters and you certainly would've seen the trend more often as new monsters were introduced.

Quote:
Like I said, I would not consider fighting a boss and resisting everyone else if I could die instantly with no reward. Take death ray out of the equation. I still would not do it. In the time it would take to kill the boss monster I could have gotten plenty of other experience elsewhere. It would be very boring and unrewarding is my point. If I was so worried about death penalties, I would just hang back in the room before the boss room. That isn't as big of an issue.
Maybe the point isn't for experience in the here and now though, maybe the point is to get an item that will help you get more experience in the long run and make you stronger in activities (such as pking). In cases where the reward does not interest you, see below.

Quote:
Both mage and melee classes can now fight the boss equally rather than the mage's cheering the meleer's on from the sidelines like they usually are.
This is why I gave Morgos 4 forms. Three are class specific, but the fourth is a free for all. When I created him people were pleasantly surprised that mages had an equal opportunity to beat his final form and walk away with the prize. We can certainly have monsters as you suggest alongside multi-form monsters. But when multi-form monsters are used, I find that doing the above works out quite nicely.

Quote:
As far as the rewards are concerned, throw in some mage rewards as well to encourage them to participate. The only mages I could see helping out with something like this is maybe Zevran, who otherwise would be sitting in MAH.
My concept when introducing multi-player bosses to the game was that if we had a bunch of these that drop varying prizes, people of different classes would all have such a monster (or monsters) that they want to kill for their class based prize. However, since they needed different people to beat them and not all those people would want the prize, they'd be forced to make deals with people to return the favor in helping them get a prize they want.

Of course, Morgos drops something that is pretty useful to all classes and even if you don't want it, you can sell it for a hefty chunk of change. But I created him to be the hardest challenge in all the game. Not only is he meant to be insanely difficult, but he's meant to be at the very end of the biggest, baddest group dungeon there ever was (yes, I know that there were no group dungeons at the time). And yet he only drops one uber prize so even to make sure everyone in your group who wants the prize, gets the prize, you'd have to make a deal to go back through all that over and over again. Likewise, I don't see why you can't make friends with people to help them with their lesser challenges so they will help you with yours.

Also, keep in mind that there's more to a dungeon than its boss. Even though a particular boss may not have something you want or reward you with enough experience to be "worth your time," who's to say that you can't find something rewarding earlier in the dungeon and get good experience doing it (one of my proposals for group dungeons was higher experience rates)? However, if you want to have a chance at all that, you need a group and who's going to want you in their group if you bail before the boss?
  #9  
Old 01-17-2012, 10:22 PM
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Yes the mindset behind the boss is for it to be a three stage fight. melee, ranged, and magic. Also as I said there are more weapons then the ones stated. I'm sure there can be some form of magical gear that would lure mages in. But as Arilou stated it's more for a fun minigame group area. I'm more then willing to bet people with mages have alts that would want an abyssal sword for their paladin and would be willing to help you get yours if you help them get theres. A lot of people these days don't realize the benefits of networking to get what you want. Most of the best players back in my time weren't the best because they did everything on their own, but because they had friends who would do LQs, and help you get what you want in return for them getting what they want. IE balanced weapons, LQ rings, crown of samhocs, agil +10 gear. Wyvern is about Networking, and with more group areas there is a higher chance of people teaming up with people and going about with helping each other out. I remember spending a few weeks doing nonstop AV to try and get Rok a balanced elec club.
  #10  
Old 01-17-2012, 11:07 PM
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I see your point. Yes thinking about it it is harder to come up with monsters that are completely resistant to all melee, but some monsters are resistant to some types of melee damage (cut, stab, or smash).

My understandings were that the first to forms would be immune to magic, and the last form would not be. Maybe this needs to be cleared up about whether the second form is resistant to actual melee or not.

Perhaps if their were rewards for both mages and melee characters the dungeon would be worth it. Perhaps if the first form is immune to magic, the second form is immune to melee, and the last form has 50% resistance to both. Basically switch the shield phase from form two to form three.

I'm just saying, if the dungeon was created and put in the game how it is initially designed in the first post, it would take some serious convincing to get me to go there for the boss. Now if the monsters provided good experience then yes I might go just because. I'm not going to turn down a dungeon just because of the last boss. Perfect justification of this is the Fae Wyston graveyard. Is the last boss there a mage boss? I don't go their for the physical reward. I do it for the exp. I guess my overall message is: Why is it that two out of three forms are anti-mage? Why aren't two out of three forms anti-melee?

All in all, the last boss really isn't going to keep me from going to the dungeon, I would like to actually participate in the fight and perhaps get something out of it for the risk though.

Also, who is Morgos?
  #11  
Old 01-17-2012, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rarkvar View Post
I see your point. Yes thinking about it it is harder to come up with monsters that are completely resistant to all melee, but some monsters are resistant to some types of melee damage (cut, stab, or smash).

My understandings were that the first to forms would be immune to magic, and the last form would not be. Maybe this needs to be cleared up about whether the second form is resistant to actual melee or not.

Perhaps if their were rewards for both mages and melee characters the dungeon would be worth it. Perhaps if the first form is immune to magic, the second form is immune to melee, and the last form has 50% resistance to both. Basically switch the shield phase from form two to form three.

I'm just saying, if the dungeon was created and put in the game how it is initially designed in the first post, it would take some serious convincing to get me to go there for the boss. Now if the monsters provided good experience then yes I might go just because. I'm not going to turn down a dungeon just because of the last boss. Perfect justification of this is the Fae Wyston graveyard. Is the last boss there a mage boss? I don't go their for the physical reward. I do it for the exp. I guess my overall message is: Why is it that two out of three forms are anti-mage? Why aren't two out of three forms anti-melee?

All in all, the last boss really isn't going to keep me from going to the dungeon, I would like to actually participate in the fight and perhaps get something out of it for the risk though.

Also, who is Morgos?
*shudders*
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
Yes the mindset behind the boss is for it to be a three stage fight. melee, ranged, and magic. Also as I said there are more weapons then the ones stated. I'm sure there can be some form of magical gear that would lure mages in. But as Arilou stated it's more for a fun minigame group area. I'm more then willing to bet people with mages have alts that would want an abyssal sword for their paladin and would be willing to help you get yours if you help them get theres. A lot of people these days don't realize the benefits of networking to get what you want. Most of the best players back in my time weren't the best because they did everything on their own, but because they had friends who would do LQs, and help you get what you want in return for them getting what they want. IE balanced weapons, LQ rings, crown of samhocs, agil +10 gear. Wyvern is about Networking, and with more group areas there is a higher chance of people teaming up with people and going about with helping each other out. I remember spending a few weeks doing nonstop AV to try and get Rok a balanced elec club.
No you're right, networking is a huge deal in Wyvern.
What I'm saying though is mage gear should be added, because it's not like there's one uber melee weapon and one uber mage weapon to be rolled for. The chances of getting either one is not 50/50. If you have nine melee weapons and one mage weapon, it's a 10% to get the mage weapon.

You say in this fight it is a melee, ranged, magic battle, correct? That would be better. I would seriously consider the summon idea, that way the other players at least have something to keep themselves entertained with while they cannot fight the boss.
  #13  
Old 01-18-2012, 03:15 AM
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It is melee ranged mage, and it's not like the meleer is getting the exact weapon he wants. it's a 10% chance to get the weapon he wants as well. not a 90% chance he gets a melee weapon, because if an axemen comes in to fight the boss he's not getting an ax 90% of the time... you seem very simple minded rarkvar, and rather selfish too if you ask me.
  #14  
Old 01-18-2012, 04:24 AM
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As the resident archer, I feel it my duty to step in a bit belatedly and point out that ranged generally uses stab damage. So attempting to use stab/cut/smash resistance to ensure melee can't harm it has a dual effect. Perhaps insanely high levels of difficult-to-resist recoil would be more sensible, as well as somewhat lowered physical resists? (Or just clarify that it's for blocking "melee/archer". )

The only area I know of that requires archer/melee/mage is in AV, and seems to use a complicated trick to ensure that meleers can't approach the target in question, while archers can still shoot past the fence. The idea of Leviathan flying would presumably use a similar trick, which should work OK.

Oh yeah, and to get in on the selfish rewards stuff some kind of archer weapon or item would be good to drop once in a while.

<heavySarcasm>Perhaps the Eye of the Storm Bow!</heavySarcasm>

Edit: whited out spoilerifficness just in case.

Last edited by jezrald : 01-18-2012 at 05:10 AM.
  #15  
Old 01-18-2012, 05:01 AM
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There's already an archer reward listed. Don't worry
  #16  
Old 01-18-2012, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
There's already an archer reward listed. Don't worry
So there is, I just derped past it.
  #17  
Old 01-18-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
It is melee ranged mage, and it's not like the meleer is getting the exact weapon he wants. it's a 10% chance to get the weapon he wants as well. not a 90% chance he gets a melee weapon, because if an axemen comes in to fight the boss he's not getting an ax 90% of the time... you seem very simple minded rarkvar, and rather selfish too if you ask me.
No you're right. I don't know what came over me earlier, I was a bit distracted in some of my earlier posts, please forgive me.

I suppose what I was getting at is more directed to how melee only weapons were listed. Look at it this way. In live quests it's possible to win platinum armor, the two live quest's I've won on Vesrayech I have gotten platinum armor that I needed. Anyone could have used that platinum armor whether they're mage or melee. Something else I was thinking about that I don't think I mentioned is adding elemental bonuses to the weapons. Sort of like how the ember weapons were.

My point is that mage's don't have much room in the spotlight. Like I said earlier, it seems the higher level monsters are, the more resistances they have to magic, not melee. There was some talk about giving mage's a specialization chance in the mage's guild where specializing in an element like fire will decrease your element in water. That's cool, we could always use bonus skill points, but now fighting most fire resistant monsters is going to be even harder. The reason I brought this whole "mage's have it worse" topic is because I misunderstood the initial post. I thought two out of three forms were immune to magic and mentioned that it would be more appealing for me to go if I could actually play the game rather than watching, because that's what mages do against harder boss monsters because we cannot hurt them.

I'm not selfish, I just want to see a higher need for mage's.
Sorry if I sounded a bit vague last night, I was distracted with a few other things.
  #18  
Old 01-18-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
The reward is pretty weak. Mithril weapons are incredibly underpowered compared to diamond/elec/gem, and vampire blade doesn't do anything against demons and undead - which constitute the vast majority of your high level digest anyway. Try a different reward, something like a chilling bracelet?
With the changes to weapons mithrils did get some boost, but also remember, they are one handed, the others are not.

Not likely anyone would allow duplicating an item by an inactive wizard (ie chilling bracelet)
  #19  
Old 06-25-2015, 03:32 PM
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Do you just take all your ideas from Runescape? After I stumbled upon that thing with the gravestones (http://www.wyvernrpg.com/forum/showt...1124#post61124) I decided to check some of your other suggestions and although I couldn't find reference to a Gladiator's Guild in that game I did find that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
the monsters in the abyss could be "tormented" versions of monsters already in game, because in essence the abyss is basically where everything gets sent before it's final resting place as kinda of an evil purgatory. (at least that's how I view it as) So it could have potential of having just about any monster, but the monsters in the abyss would need to be different then normal ones seen in game. Hence Tormented things

IE
Tormented Drow
Tormented Pirate
Tormented Gorgon
Tormented Medusa
Tormented Monopod
Tormented Maralith
Searching "runescape tormented" brought up a wiki which reveals that they have a tormented class of demons.

Quote:
The final Boss in the abyss I was thinking could be a Leviathan which would have a minute chance of dropping abyssal weapons, and abyssal weapons would have the strength of mithril weapons, as durable as platinum, and the ability to steal health similar to vampire blade (level 5 death vampire blade).

IE
Abyssal Sword
Abyssal Club
Abyssal Axe
Abyssal bow
etc...
Also, "runescape abyssal" mentions an abyssal class of monsters and some items (abyssal whip, abyssal orb, abyssal wand).

It's minor, but funny since it establishes a pattern when it comes to your suggestions. Did you also suggest their P2P model (http://www.wyvernrpg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2227) to us? The idea of having people play to access additional areas is rather generic in the gaming world and something we wizards discussed way back in 2003 (as I mentioned). However, I'm curious now if you only know of it from playing that game, which a google search revealed used to cost the same $5 you were suggesting we charge.

If I go through the idea log will I find more of these connections? Everything you ever suggested suddenly seems circumspect.
  #20  
Old 06-27-2015, 12:00 PM
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Honestly you could very well be right. I'm not quite sure what angle I was going with at the time. But I do know that I was more basing the abyss off of Soul Reaver not runescape. I am very unoriginal it appears. However the gladiator's guild was me trying to think about what actually uses spears/pole-arms throughout history.
 


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