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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #21  
Old 12-28-2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joca View Post
Melee might not be nearly as good as mages in PK, but they're the best at LQs
Correction, meleers are good at lqs that were made to favor them. A lot of bosses have had high magical resistances and low or non-existent melee resistences. This is something that has been in the process of changing. Some lqs will favor one type of player, some with favor another, some will be more of a free for all.
  #22  
Old 12-28-2008, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joca View Post
Melee might not be nearly as good as mages in PK, but they're the best at LQs
Actually, mages are not all that great in PK, as resists are quite easy to get.

Mages real strong point is PvE and they can easily do a non-RD without death if they're careful. Though they're slower in their monster slaying than melees, they are much safer as they can fire from a distance. Also they're are more powerful than archers, not to mention they can easily get killer resists. Unfortunately they have a bad habit of blowing loot to bits, this makes it hard to train. =/

Archers however do not destroy loot, can fire without using SP and can hit things with a variety of damage types including pierce, at a distance! Archers, unlike everyone else, have no disadvantage other than them being the weakest. :]

Melees are by far the most powerful of all, but they have get up close and get, HURT! *gasp*, oh yeah, and they have to worry about their weapons getting damaged. Most of the time.
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Last edited by Hamel : 12-28-2008 at 11:09 PM.
  #23  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joca View Post
Well I guess what he's trying to say is that every other fighting style has a thing that it's GOOD at.

Melee might not be nearly as good as mages in PK, but they're the best at LQs

Archers on the other hand aren't really too great at anything. They're below average in absolutely every aspect of the game.

So as others excel in SOMETHING in the game, even with their weaknesses, archers excel in nothing, and still have the same or more weaknesses.


Prove me wrong
Have you ever even played an archer.? They are easier than mages and meleers. They can kill monsters without taking damage(like Teshuvah said) and they can also kill stronger monsters with better loot and more XP. They can potentially level up faster than meleers and make more money than mages. I have never PKed with an archer so I can't say anything about that, but arching is very powerful. Even more so if you take advantage of things like sneaking and invisibility. The only major risks I faced with an archer are summon traps, running out of missiles, and getting cornered .
  #24  
Old 12-29-2008, 09:43 AM
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Although many people are already bashing this idea, I just felt that I should join along. Archers have the least negatives out of any guild out there, only
-5 in the arts (i'm not aware that melee does anything to mages or archers) IS GREAT!!! 10 in ranged saves you money and skill points, dodge saves you one piece of agility armor and forestry is useless...but if you use an wood or high elf, you get +3-+5 bonus. If that is not enough for you, many of the bows and armors offer find weakness, and range for bonuses.

If you are still not satisfied, I suggest that you could even go unguilded.


I think we should direct this topic into what we could do to prevent summon traps, getting cornered and that other thing that the guy above me said.

So get spells, get detect trap or whatever it's called, and get teleport


The only thing that needs fixing is arrow lag... that is the main reason for death at least for me... If you hold down the shift and arrow key, you often get stuck for what seems like hours.
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Last edited by Mustard : 12-29-2008 at 12:25 PM.
  #25  
Old 12-29-2008, 01:38 PM
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Archers, IMHO, are the fastest at 1-10. Even if you are not an archer a lot of people use a crossbow or bow to kill big monsters to level faster when starting a new character. As long as you use invisibility and have plenty of ammo ranged absolutely rules 1-10.

Having tried just about every weapon possible I would say I found being a halfling archer the easiest to lvl at low lvs because of the invis although I prefer to play as an elf archer.

So there is your one thing archers own at...being stupid easy to lvl 1-10. Some might even argue 1-15.
  #26  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:26 PM
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The thing I don't like about archers are that there is no suspense, just standing in a dark corner of an RD firing arrows at something you probably can't see...there is no threat of dying, and you can't see your target...

If you couldn't tell I'm a fan of melee, mages also have very fun spells. Archers are just shift and direction...

Just spewing out ideas
Maybe archers could be able to use their bows at close range, using maybe arrows as stab weapons rather than having to also train in a secondary weapon

Or maybe a targeting system, allowing you to run and shoot at the same time(Or maybe a list of aliases that does the same thing)
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  #27  
Old 12-29-2008, 02:48 PM
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Now there is an idea I like..Target lock, Im thinking something like this-

You have to type target lock then the target. ex: target lock ghast. then all you have to do is hit an alias for the command fire target and it would fire at the target. You could make it to where you had to stay in the screen with the object for it to stay locked though. That would help make it not horribly unfair.
This would definatly make pk more interesting for archers
  #28  
Old 12-29-2008, 03:39 PM
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@Rilian : That's sort of overpowering us, in a way... the problem with firing blindly towards a target is that arrows aren't like big spray spells that hit everything in a range. If the target moves, say, even just three squares to the side, then part of the problem is wasting a couple of arrows trying to locate the target again. Locking onto a target and just hitting an alias over and over again... **boring**, anyone?

&Mustard : shift and direction? Outdated. Aliases are faster

Huh... fastest at 1 - 10? Possibly/probably. I kind of failed at 1 - 10, because until level six I had no idea what training in skills meant ...yeah. And then comes "midlife crisis" that hits at level 12 or so, when you actually have to think about balancing out skills, and some resists. If you said 1 - 15, archers are easiest to play, I'd disagree.
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  #29  
Old 12-29-2008, 05:02 PM
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The way I was picturing would be that once you locked on them you would have to chase them to keep them locked in and if they teleport out of the screen then you loose your lock. Also to hit melee people you would have to stay in the screen with them but not close enough to get hit so there still could be some strategery to it.
  #30  
Old 12-29-2008, 07:22 PM
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Homing missles are on the list, so to speak. Rhialto mentioned them as something for the future when adding elemental arrows. However, I believe his idea was to have them go after the nearest enemy or something to that effect.
  #31  
Old 12-29-2008, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Homing missiles are on the list, so to speak. Rhialto mentioned them as something for the future when adding elemental arrows. However, I believe his idea was to have them go after the nearest enemy or something to that effect.
I'm guessing something similar to magic missiles from crossfire? That might be interesting.
  #32  
Old 12-29-2008, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
So get spells, get detect trap or whatever it's called, and get teleport
I'm pretty sure detect trap is broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Just spewing out ideas
Maybe archers could be able to use their bows at close range, using maybe arrows as stab weapons rather than having to also train in a secondary weapon
Stabbing things with arrows? This is not only impossible realistically speaking: Archer: 'stabby!', Arrow: *snap*, Archer: 'uhoh', Monster: *splats archer*, it is also overpowered. D:

Besides, you're not much of a archer if you hit things in melee.
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  #33  
Old 12-30-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post
I'm pretty sure detect trap is broken.



Stabbing things with arrows? This is not only impossible realistically speaking: Archer: 'stabby!', Arrow: *snap*, Archer: 'uhoh', Monster: *splats archer*, it is also overpowered. D:

Besides, you're not much of a archer if you hit things in melee.
It worked in LOTR, legolas stabbed a goblin in the eyes with his arrows... maybe a special arrow that costs a lot? like a Mithril/Diamond/Electrinum Arrows that can be fired, and used as stab weapons..
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  #34  
Old 12-30-2008, 03:56 PM
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Hamel said that archers are easy to level (at least for early stages) and a few people said they are fun to play.

But I still can't help to think that archers are just a tinnny bit weak. Not as weak as some people mentioned, but still a bit weak.


Archers take forever to kill a reaper even with my archer who has 35 ranged without rings.

Meleers only have to carry 1 weapon so that can't weigh much, mages don't have to carry anything to use their fireball/blizzard so that doesn't weigh at all. But archers have to carry tons of arrows, some arrows are for pking (bolts), some are for rding, some to light up the path. And yeah, you can just tell me to bring arrows of returning, but those get destroyed if they get hit with like 2 DB's.

~~There is a reason there is a loooot more mages and meleers than archers.~~

P.S: By the time I finish an RD, my fingers are tired from spamming my buttons.
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  #35  
Old 12-30-2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazerv View Post
Archers take forever to kill a reaper even with my archer who has 35 ranged without rings.
Yeah, that's because they were designed that way, as were a number of other monsters which present the same kind of problem for other types of players. It encourges grouping and stragety. You can't kill a monster and don't have someone around to help you? Run...Run away, run past them, find another way around them, lure them away then make a break for it, whatever. You can't expect to be able to kill everything and as time goes on we'll be adding more and more monsters that present unique challenges for individual player classes.
  #36  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Yeah, that's because they were designed that way, as were a number of other monsters which present the same kind of problem for other types of players. It encourges grouping and stragety. You can't kill a monster and don't have someone around to help you? Run...Run away, run past them, find another way around them, lure them away then make a break for it, whatever. You can't expect to be able to kill everything and as time goes on we'll be adding more and more monsters that present unique challenges for individual player classes.
Yeah like for raks, they take forever to kill a xipe, BUT there is a simple solution for that, just switch claws. But for an archer there's no simple solution switch, all arrows take forever, even flame arrows.
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  #37  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazerv View Post
Yeah like for raks, they take forever to kill a xipe, BUT there is a simple solution for that, just switch claws. But for an archer there's no simple solution switch, all arrows take forever, even flame arrows.
Reapers originally resisted both cut and stab, so that wouldn't have worked so well on them as it does with Xipes. But, eventually there may be a monster that does just that again. In any case, the lack of one now doesn't mean there shouldn't be such monsters for other types of players. Mages have problems with diamond golems, players who use smash have problems with those air elementals, and so on. But as I said, you don't have to kill everything and if you really, really feel the need to, find someone to group with or make use of the wide array of useful combat aids that the game provides. Which include things like scrolls, rods, wands, etc.
  #38  
Old 12-30-2008, 07:31 PM
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I just thought of a crazy idea that might help archers out a bit. Just a thought, currently wielding bows has no beneficial effect -- How about create bows -- archer guild only -- that act as a slashing tool when wielded next to monsters. That would definitely give some skill points back to the archers that rely on the sword bow combo. So archers would be a bow slashing arrow firing class -- An interesting idea. In an rp sense it is realistic as I'd imagine an archer whacking a monster that got too close to it with his sharp metal bow. Heh idk
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  #39  
Old 12-30-2008, 07:39 PM
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Bows used to do damage when wielded, but we fixed it. The reasoning behind said fix is that; A) You're not really going to able to a lot of damage with a bow, short of managing to poke your enemy in the eye with it or using some freaky kill a guy with a paper plate type moves. B) Bows are fragile and using them in close combat is a good way to damage them. If your whacking someone with it doesn't do it, their weapon will.
  #40  
Old 12-30-2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Bows used to do damage when wielded, but we fixed it. The reasoning behind said fix is that; A) You're not really going to able to a lot of damage with a bow short of managing to poke your enemy in the eye with it or using some freaky kill a guy with a paper plate type moves. B) Bows are fragile and using them in close combat is a good way to damage them. If your wacking someone with it doesn't do it, their weapon will.
But that was when bows were made out of wood. We have bows made out of GOLD now. Would you want to be hit by an awkwardly shaped rod of gold?

I sure wouldn't.


If only you guys would show some creativity, like this picture I found on the internet.



But seriously, there is not much in this thread that has not already been discussed in this one. Basically, there is a nebulous feeling that archers are somehow getting the shaft in the later levels (~20+), but most of the solutions offered either break with what the wizards have done on purpose, or don't address the real reasons whatever archer is feeling underpowered at the moment.

I would say this is mostly because the archer is thinking about things in the wrong way. You shouldn't come at the problem as a "I don't have enough power(s), how can I get more?", but rather try to figure out if something is broken, like a game mechanic.

For example, archers cannot go deep into RD's right now without an obscene risk of dying, which defeats the point of going into an RD (as you'll will just lose any xp you gained, and then some). The problem is not that archers are not powerful enough, it's that it's just a terrible design for us. Spaces you cannot really run around in, and powerful instantkiller monsters around the stairs. Will random dungeons always look the same in the future? Probably not. If it really bothers you, why not ask Rhialto about his thoughts on RD's in the future and what he might like to do with random map generation. More skillpoints from a guild won't deal with 13 spells being spammed at you, 4 different kinds of melee attacks, and recoil to boot. Better/different maps would.

Another example could be changing the way archers attack. Right now, you have to stand in one spot, and spam arrows at an unrealistic rate of many a second. What if you could only fire one arrows every 3-4 seconds, but the arrow was far more powerful? This might vastly change the way archers fight, as we could then fire, move, fire move. Not only would it solve the problem of forcing us into having to sit still or we cannot attack effectively at all, it might also solve the arrow lag problem were people click a little faster than they actually fire, effectively paralyzing them because of a bad command queue. What it's effect on pk would be, could be good or bad, no way to really know unless it was tried. It would would also add a vulnerability to very numerous or fast monsters, giving wizards another think to play with if they specifically wanted to make an area hard for archers. Etc.

Well, I've completely lost my train of thought. That ends this post I guess, hope it makes sense.
 


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