Remaking/Open Sourcing Wyvern

[Josiah]

is it Illegal to maker a game like wyvern??? since its kinda a copy?

[Crier]

Too be honest I am just guessing what you meant so...no it is not illegal to be a maker of a game.

>.>

[Josiah]

I meant to make a game like Wyvern.... in other words copying Wyvern

[Astrus]

Yes Josiah copying Wyvern would be illegal. You would be unable to take any art from wyvern even though some of it produced by players. Furthermore due to more recent legislations you have to be able to prove that your game is an original concept. In other words you can include key concepts but they cannot be so similar to work in an exact fashion (unless the game is restricted from US and Japanese players). Key concepts would include non-real locations, UI design (not function just layout), and game play.

I am not skilled in legalities of games but this is the guideline passed to me from someone that is. I'm sure there are many things in there that are missing and that I don't understand that could make it more or less difficult to "copy" the game.

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by Astrus

Yes Josiah copying Wyvern would be illegal. You would be unable to take any art from wyvern even though some of it produced by players. Furthermore due to more recent legislations you have to be able to prove that your game is an original concept. In other words you can include key concepts but they cannot be so similar to work in an exact fashion (unless the game is restricted from US and Japanese players). Key concepts would include non-real locations, UI design (not function just layout), and game play.

I am not skilled in legalities of games but this is the guideline passed to me from someone that is. I'm sure there are many things in there that are missing and that I don't understand that could make it more or less difficult to "copy" the game.

ohhh haha I would be making my own art and everything its just the goal and stuff would be the same and the HUD and health bars weight bar hunger bar.... stuff like that..... in other words it would be the same but made by me so everything is a little different.

[Brionac]

I had a dream of making my own game once too.

[Harbringer Of Good Stuff]

My answer to everything in this subreddit, is to JUST open-source the game. Honestly, if we are going to have a lack of development and a lack of commitment. We might as well open-source it, or atleast pressure R to do so.

You "arch-wizards" are more convincing than us, since you actually know R, and could probably get him to get rid of the game once and for all, if you wanted.

Honestly, I just want to play the game at this point of time, and I want to keep my hopes UP. But if worst comes to worst? I have other games with better developmental models, that I can go to. But they won't ever replicate Wyvern...

[Arilou]

This is the last time I'm replying to your nonsense (which better be limited to this thread moving forward if you're really going to persist with it).

In what world do you think now is a good time to advocate open sourcing the game? Rhialto just started his longtime goal of actively working on Wyvern again. He has plans for where he wants to take it and has gone to "great" lengths to get the ball rolling. He's not going to suddenly forget all that by surrendering all control and giving up all his plans because some wizards pester him, which we wouldn't do anyway because we are the biggest advocates of not open sourcing the game.

Now, I was saying that at some point in the future his current mindset may change and may decide to back off from the game like he did in the past. Perhaps because he only likes the idea of working on the game and will tire of it once he actually does it for awhile or perhaps because something comes up that leads him to think he needs to wait for X, Y, and Z to happen before he can work on the game again. But, that's not where his head is at now. Therefore, this open source nonsense is more pointless (if that's even possible) than it usually is.

[Lanterra]

Originally Posted by Arilou

This is the last time I'm replying to your nonsense (which better be limited to this thread moving forward if you're really going to persist with it).

In what world do you think now is a good time to advocate open sourcing the game? Rhialto just started his longtime goal of actively working on Wyvern again. He has plans for where he wants to take it and has gone to "great" lengths to get the ball rolling. He's not going to suddenly forget all that by surrendering all control and giving up all his plans because some wizards pester him, which we wouldn't do anyway because we are the biggest advocates of not open sourcing the game.

Now, I was saying that at some point in the future his current mindset may change and may decide to back off from the game like he did in the past. Perhaps because he only likes the idea of working on the game and will tire of it once he actually does it for awhile or perhaps because something comes up that leads him to think he needs to wait for X, Y, and Z to happen before he can work on the game again. But, that's not where his head is at now. Therefore, this open source nonsense is more pointless (if that's even possible) than it usually is.

What he said. Open source is a great concept, and great of the author of the code favors it and offers it... but at this point asking for open source is like taking the pony you got for Christmas to the dentist.

[Rarkvar]

Maybe we should just ask Bullfrogs to persuade Rhialto to open source the game or sell it if he plans on just sitting on it while it's in a state of Limbo.

[Dracco]

Originally Posted by Rarkvar

Maybe we should just ask Bullfrogs to persuade Rhialto to open source the game or sell it if he plans on just sitting on it while it's in a state of Limbo.

I would assume that, from a legal standpoint, he can't open source or sell a game that he doesn't own. Regardless, Rhialto would sit on the game for 30 more years even after being persuaded.

[Rarkvar]

Originally Posted by Dracco

I would assume that, from a legal standpoint, he can't open source or sell a game that he doesn't own. Regardless, Rhialto would sit on the game for 30 more years even after being persuaded.

Correct me if im wrong, but my understanding is that R only owns the original Wyvern that is without the hundreds of maps that the Wizards have contributed over the years. So we would get like NV and the world map and maybe a few other places.

[Nodlove]

Originally Posted by Rarkvar

Correct me if im wrong, but my understanding is that R only owns the original Wyvern that is without the hundreds of maps that the Wizards have contributed over the years. So we would get like NV and the world map and maybe a few other places.

You're wrong. You seem to have missed the "Final Update on Wyvern" from November of last year. Wyvern is dead because Rhialto is not the sole owner of Wyvern, and cannot legally reconstruct it without permission from the other owners. Therefore, with that in mind, he is creating a "new" game that is going to take its place, that can access the Wizards' creations in a similar manner, given the Wizards allow the use of their content. However, there is much controversy over this whole thing, and, if you want to know the full story, I'd suggest you read several of the threads from the past 3 or so years. Or, Wikipedia could update you rather nicely. Or that subreddit thingy, which has more direct information, since it's not as old or popular as this forum.

[Rarkvar]

Originally Posted by Nodlove

You're wrong. You seem to have missed the "Final Update on Wyvern" from November of last year. Wyvern is dead because Rhialto is not the sole owner of Wyvern, and cannot legally reconstruct it without permission from the other owners. Therefore, with that in mind, he is creating a "new" game that is going to take its place, that can access the Wizards' creations in a similar manner, given the Wizards allow the use of their content. However, there is much controversy over this whole thing, and, if you want to know the full story, I'd suggest you read several of the threads from the past 3 or so years. Or, Wikipedia could update you rather nicely. Or that subreddit thingy, which has more direct information, since it's not as old or popular as this forum.

I figured he could at lease release the portion of the game and code that he did own to the general public. He couldn't update the T&S agreement to include any artwork or code submitted to the actual game itself is released of any copyright. That's what he should've done in the first place and i'm a bit surprised that it turned out that way. Especially if people used a program that wasn't theirs to make maps with borrowed graphics. I'm not sure about most of the legal aspect of this whole case but to me it sounds like the only thing he shouldn't be able to touch is any art or code that he did not originally write. Even then, Arilou, Teshuvah, Contrare, and Arisu might be reachable to ask permission to use their artwork and code.

[Arilou]

Rarkvar, the issue that Nodlove is referring to does not have to do with wizard content. I have sole ownership over my content, Teshuvah has sole ownership of her content, and so on and so forth. Therefore it is up to us as to decide how we wish for our content to be used. So if the game was open sourced (which isn't happening) we would have to consent to allowing it to be released.

That, however, was not the problem as we wizards have no ownership stake whatsoever in the game itself. The problem was that the parts that Rhialto owned (aka everything but wizard content) was not solely owned by him. Meaning, he made himself a co-owner when founding Cabochon Technologies and so he, himself, only had an ownership stake in the game. Therefore, he wanted to resolve that before moving forward as if the game became profitable and other parties came out of the woodwork at a later date, things would become problematic. Likewise, I imagine that said parties could come out of the woodwork if the game was open sourced and go after Rhialto for lost potential earnings, but don't quote me on that as I'm just speculating about that aspect. All I definitively know on the matter is that he said he didn't think he could open source it, if he wanted to, (which he doesn't) after speaking to lawyers.

Anyway, to make a very long saga short, Rhialto considered it a good thing that wizards owned their own content because while it means that Rhialto doesn't own any of it, it also means that those other parties don't either. So if Rhialto were to make a new game based on Wyvern, as he previously said he would, we could have allowed our content to be used in the new game.

Further, had I not seen that Wyvern allowed its contributors to own their content I never would've applied to work on the game (that was the deciding factor for me) and as a result you wouldn't have my stuff as part of Wyvern in the first place. Nor would you have had years of torture humor, (aren't you a lucky sack of meat?) this forum, the content that other wizards produced as a result of my being here, and possibly even the game for as long as you did (no Arilou to stick around after Legolas left means no Teshuvah which means nobody to try to hold things together by alerting Rhialto to server issues, pester him to keep things going, and try to maintain/produce content). So you shouldn't be against our owning our own content.