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Suggestions Post any suggestions for new Wyvern content here that is too complicated to explain in the idea log or that you want to first get feedback on from other players.

 
 
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steovanni View Post
Air and earth are built for support mainly.
I'm sorry, did I just imagine air having a dart, bolt, shield and storm spell or is everything that doesn't have a ball spell to its name considered non-offense?
  #22  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:31 AM
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@Dracco: I think the real problem is making it enticing to train other elements. The most popular elements are by far Fire, Water, Air, and Life, with Death and Earth close behind. This leaves Spirit and Mind behind. Now I've seen the spells in both of these and I don't think they're useless, just undervalued.

For example, I've seen a mage use a combination of Word of Recall and Recall (two spirit spells) to leave and return to an RD to sell his loot and restock on items. I've also heard rumors that the fear spell can actually kill lesser monsters.

@Steo: Air is amazing for solo play. Xray + darksight + see invisible + speed + flight + invisibility. You get full map awareness while gaining a significant speed boost and protection. Not to mention the lower concentration of monsters with resistance to shock.

@Arilou: Isn't air's dart spell for Storm Giants only, though?
  #23  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
I'm sorry, did I just imagine air having a dart, bolt, shield and storm spell or is everything that doesn't have a ball spell to its name considered non-offense?
You misunderstood me.

I didn't say air was non-offensive completely, just it wasn't MAINLY offensive. Air has many support spells such as x-ray, darksight, fly, invisibility, speed, see invisibility etc, making it more support oriented. Sure air can attack too but it will never compare to fire or water in strength and efficiency which will thus, deter people from the element who are not interested in the support spells that air has to offer.

If air had both great offense AND support, that would be unbalanced.

Quote:
@Steo: Air is amazing for solo play. Xray + darksight + see invisible + speed + flight + invisibility. You get full map awareness while gaining a significant speed boost and protection. Not to mention the lower concentration of monsters with resistance to shock.
Indeed it is very nice. Great for those who love to play strategically. However, sadly, many people seem to prefer just going for the simplest way to deal the most damage quickly and efficiently. This results in the extremely popular fire/water combo.

Last edited by Steovanni : 04-19-2012 at 12:09 PM.
  #24  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:42 AM
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And an unfortunate side effect of that ability for them to power through the game is also that they are able to resist many damage types without being resisted against themselves. Except in the case of AV, which is awesome!

Maybe they'll release some monsters that are immune to fire and cold in the future!
  #25  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:01 PM
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It has been quite a while since Wyvern so I apologize if I mixed some things up.

To begin with, Fire/water/life etc are popular for good reasons. Assuming that you aren't planning to become some sort of support/resist mage, they are pretty much the best way to blow things up as a mage. I imagine that even if we're forced into specializing all that will happen is that people will decide to switch their second element to something else. Such as death to improve DB or air for its handy spells. It's not as if it's never been done before, it's simply not popular.

If you ask me the reason why earth/spirit/mind/air isn't trained much is simply because there's not enough merits in doing so. To begin with, if you want to train without partying (mind you, partying is still far from popular because of the past this game had) you're definitely going to need some sort of weapon or skill to kill things with. That's still fine but climb a few levels and things become comedic.

Sandstorming things to death? Fearing things until they hopefully walk into a trap somewhere and die? Good luck.

Spirit flat out has no offensive as far as I remember and air is the closest you'll get to something being decent. But even then, decent doesn't mean it's practical as your options are essentially to lightning bolt (and I'm sure we all know how effective that is against tough enemies) or thunderstorm. Unlike firespray/icestorm and the sort, thunderstorm is far from spammable without zapping a hole in your pocket.

Finally, deciding to give up casting magic at all and smashing things to death goes against the principles of being a mage and being forced to do that would be a joke.

The final answer? The easiest way to go is to train at least one offensive element or throw out all ideas of being a support until you're "done" training and only after that, retrain into support.

For as long as there isn't a method to effectively train support characters, offensive builds like fire/water will be the most popular unless the user is a masochist. I'm pretty sure it's much easier to train up as fire/water and then retrain after. It might cost a fair amount of cash but probably beats training up the hard way.

Moving on, now we come to talking about the elements themselves.

I believe that balancing mage guild is going to be a fairly rough ride. The balancing at the moment is basically based off the current mage guild. Changes to the mage guild means the balance will be upset and we're starting from scratch.

Although I reckon wizards have ideas of their own, I have some time so I guess I'll go on with some rambling.

The natural conclusion you'd come to when changing mage guild to act more like a guild is to offer specializations. Whether or not mandatory is up to debate but anyway.

Most of the obvious problems seem to have already been pointed out so I'll skip those and go to another point. One worrisome issue regarding changing mage guild is that, mages already sit on a delicate position with skill points. In fact, delicate is wrong, unless they specialize in a single element they will direly need skill points.

Hopefully we'll dodge a bullet and wizards know that it's not a great idea to do something along the lines of "+10 fire and -5 on all other elements". Depending on the result of balancing however, either not much changes will happen at all (such as we'll simply get +5 on all elements and call it a day) or mages will be forced to adapt to another revolution. Much like when they were forced to give up on ball spells as main offense. For specifics we'll have to wait and see.

Personally I think rather than specializing in one element, it would probably be better to just have mage bonuses that specialize in several if not duo elements. This is simply because it's more or less unheard of for a mage at this point to not put a few points spread out into several elements to reap bonuses.

Specializing in single elements works just fine as well but as mentioned before, it's fairly easy to abuse the system without proper measures in place. Such as the point that people who don't want to change their build can just go and specialize in life, reap additional resist time and resists for little penalties, the worst part is probably just that you'll have a weak dragon breath.

That said, it's just an idea. Probably plenty of flaws as well but I have neither the time nor motivation to work out the details. In any case I'm out of time now so I'm ending the post here.
  #26  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:37 PM
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Doesn't thunderstorm require a lightning stone or something to cast? It's just shame that air spells require more expensive, heavier(I think it is) reagants to use. Not to mention, lightning stonest aren't in large piles in reagant shops, they have 2-4 of them, while something like sulfur, pixie dust, or graveyard dirt have piles of 15+ in reagant shops. Using air as an offense would create a hole in your pocket.

A good sidestep to that, without changing reagant requirements would be a second, weaker cone spell for air. Like a Static cone.

Also, while it is true that earth is primarily a defensive element, there could also be a couple attacks for it. Example:

Stalagmite: Lore 3, creates a spike in the earth damaging monsters. Area of effect is one square in 4 directions. Like a cross. Possibility for chance of knockback.

Earth attacks, should have a very small area of effect, to keep it from being overly offensive.

I'd love to make a Geomancer, if there was just a tad more offense.
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  #27  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:01 PM
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I was a fire/water/air/life mage and I used thunderstorm a lot, I found plenty of reagents from shops (I frequently carried 160 thunderstones in bag of GH) and they weren't too costly or heavy although when I fought LQ bosses that were immune to fire and water I wish I had carried more because I ran out of thunderstones at around half of it's HP and since it was the gauntlet, I had to just lightningbolt spam the other boss. It has very high damage so that outweighs the reagent cost. Air is very balanced, perfect amount of offense+support for that element. Earth I have little experience with and plan on testing it thoroughly when the game is up before I start making serious suggestions on it. As for fire/water mages I'm still at a loss...
  #28  
Old 04-20-2012, 12:29 AM
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Thats just the thing though, you had plenty of lightning stones for you, because air wasn't your prime or only source of attack. For someone who focuses on air, they'd need a much larger supply of lightning stones, which are not as plentiful or cheap in reagant shops. It adds up if you use it as a main attack source.

Second short range earth spell:

Stone Spire: Creates a stone spike that reaches two squares ahead of the caster, damaging anything in the spaces. Caster can not move while the spire is active.
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Last edited by Clubbz : 04-20-2012 at 12:39 AM.
  #29  
Old 04-28-2012, 12:30 PM
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When making a mage: Roll a race with 4 skillpoints.

Which reminds me, pixies are pretty good mages. But the amount of skillpoints they get kinda kills it...Would not want to roll a resist mage with a pixie.

Air is pretty neat, but would be nice if it had a ball spell
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  #30  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:33 PM
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I think more bouncy spells like firefrost would be better. Firefrost is a fun spell, but it's the only one of its kind.
  #31  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morwen View Post
I think more bouncy spells like firefrost would be better. Firefrost is a fun spell, but it's the only one of its kind.
Maybe someday someone will make this from Rhialto's list:

"Ball Lightning 750 nobody Evocation of Air. Creates a ball of static electricity that moves around randomly, doing damage to anything it hits."
  #32  
Old 04-28-2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Maybe someday someone will make this from Rhialto's list:

"Ball Lightning 750 nobody Evocation of Air. Creates a ball of static electricity that moves around randomly, doing damage to anything it hits."
Seems like it would be a pretty chancy spell, if it ran through an enemy multiple times it could be quite dangerous though.
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  #33  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akajumo View Post
Seems like it would be a pretty chancy spell, if it ran through an enemy multiple times it could be quite dangerous though.
Including dangerous to yourself if you read the description...
  #34  
Old 04-29-2012, 05:20 PM
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Ball spells already hurt the user, and I'm pretty sure firefrost does as well. Static Ball souns fun though.
  #35  
Old 04-29-2012, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morwen View Post
Ball spells already hurt the user, and I'm pretty sure firefrost does as well. Static Ball souns fun though.
Yes, I just wanted to remind folks, also consider that it bounces around randomly (which was the difficult part when Contrare was trying to create it if I remember correctly which I probably don't). So it won't be as easy to avoid as a ball spell or firefrost.
It's not going to be a ball or firefrost type spell as far as it works, but a randomly bouncing around high damage item. etc.

It would be an excellent spell because of it's great damage and it's difficulty to resist. Would also most likely be a very high lore spell, high reagent etc.
Also have issues of when/if allow it to be dispelled by time etc.
Allowing the caster to dispel (they cant dispel ball spells in general, fire ball grows, shrinks etc) would be too easy etc. So a lot to consider.
  #36  
Old 04-29-2012, 05:52 PM
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Still offers more variety than what is available now.

I'd love to see more unique spells like firefrost, or the Ball Lightning spell. It'd change up casting styles.
  #37  
Old 04-29-2012, 06:32 PM
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It would probably be best if it was unable to be dispelled since the lack of control seems to be the main downside of the spell, it'd be a shame to have the damage nerfed in place of allowing the player to dispel it (especially because it would be hilarious to watch a mage being chased by his own spell). I'd probably look at fear coding and confusion coding to aid in writing it's movement code because it sounds like it would move similar to the way a person who is feared+confused would. It sounds like a difficult movement pattern to code though.

Slightly off-topic but, from what I vaguely remember, FireFrost had a weird bouncy effect to it, sometimes it will hit a wall and bounce back the way it came instead of a 90 degree deflection and other times it would actually take the 90 degree path. Anyone else have this experience?
  #38  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dracco View Post
Slightly off-topic but, from what I vaguely remember, FireFrost had a weird bouncy effect to it, sometimes it will hit a wall and bounce back the way it came instead of a 90 degree deflection and other times it would actually take the 90 degree path. Anyone else have this experience?
I do seem to remember something like that. I eventually swore off the spell because I couldn't get it to bounce predictably... aiming into a room diagonally always (usually?) made it come back at me. It's a cool spell but I didn't have the patience for its shenanigans
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  #39  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:23 PM
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fireball+blizzard+firefrost = increase damage

awesome combo <3
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  #40  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:02 PM
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Not if your dancing in it. I prefer to dance in the rain myself. A bit safer unless it is a thunderstorm or some hail mixed in. In that case I'd rather sleep. In all seriousness though I think I would like to see this bouncy staticy spell added. If nothing else it should make PvP even more fun and chaotic.
 


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